Quote from fenn68 on November 30, 2019, 6:50 am

Quality RP are in big demand as noted by the FA signings for big money of Smith / Pomeranz.

Padres have a need to upgrade offense in the OF and SP (if the upgrade is big).

So, with the big money signing of Pomeranz who will pair with Yates to end games and the return of the high ceiling Castillo as the 2nd LHP option .... should we start thinking of Strahm as a trade chip as an in demand RP?

Consider, as a RP, Strahm sports a career 2.71 ERA / 1.14 WHIP ... is only 28 ... 3 years control in first arb year (so very low cost). That is a great profile to keep ... but could be a great trade chip traded from "excess" to get a major upgrade at a more needed position. Pair him with some other "excess" players to generate a major upgrade?

Quote from onlypads on November 30, 2019, 7:11 am

Quote from fenn68 on November 30, 2019, 5:51 am

If we think the Padres who have lost over 90 games 3 years in a row and finished 36 games behind the LAD for the NL WEST and 19 games (8 teams) out of the last Wild Card spot should be trading prospects to improve the ML roster for the very long odds of getting a wild card in 2020  .... then, is it not reasonable that a legit contender may deal some their high value prospects (with longer term value) to the Padres if the Padres can fill an immediate need for 2020.

Preller is capable of simultaneously working two tracks .... dealing to improve 2020-21 and dealing to improve the next 6 years. Not an either or situation. The Davies - Grisham deal demonstrates that.

It looks as though this winter contending teams seem to prize veteran catchers / CF / SP / RP with multiple teams in pursuit of a limited supply (and not much quality). Padres have multiple catchers, multiple ML ready candidates for #5 SP (Quantrill, Lucchesi, Bolanos). Plus IF they are willing to bet on Grisham being at a minimum having the same productivity as Margot (plus as a LHH playing 75% of the time anyway) .... Margot can be a sought after trade chip.

Preller is in a good position to squeeze maximum value out of his "excess" ML assets and his prospect trove. Can be adding prospects while trading away prospects.

What about Margot, Hedges, and Lucchesi/Cal for Clint Frazier and Jonathan Loiasiga? Upside for us.  Fill holes for them on the cheap (defensive catcher, ML SP, and CF) so that they can pursue TOR.  I don't believe those three players help us contend.  I think Clint and Jonathan make us better now and in the future, clears money, and frees up roster spots.

Quote from BoosterSD on November 30, 2019, 7:18 am

Quote from onlypads on November 30, 2019, 7:11 am

What about Margot, Hedges, and Lucchesi/Cal for Clint Frazier and Jonathan Loiasiga? Upside for us.  Fill holes for them on the cheap (defensive catcher, ML SP, and CF) so that they can pursue TOR.  I don't believe those three players help us contend.  I think Clint and Jonathan make us better now and in the future, clears money, and frees up roster spots.

Dont know enough about the pitcher, but not really that enthused about Frazier. He seems like Renfroe that cant field as well as Renfroe. Plus it would only save SD about $4.4M. I  think those players can better used either in house or for getting someone better than Frazier.

Quote from onlypads on November 30, 2019, 7:24 am

Quote from BoosterSD on November 30, 2019, 7:18 am

Quote from onlypads on November 30, 2019, 7:11 am

What about Margot, Hedges, and Lucchesi/Cal for Clint Frazier and Jonathan Loiasiga? Upside for us.  Fill holes for them on the cheap (defensive catcher, ML SP, and CF) so that they can pursue TOR.  I don't believe those three players help us contend.  I think Clint and Jonathan make us better now and in the future, clears money, and frees up roster spots.

Dont know enough about the pitcher, but not really that enthused about Frazier. He seems like Renfroe that cant field as well as Renfroe. Plus it would only save SD about $4.4M. I  think those players can better used either in house or for getting someone better than Frazier.

You certainly could be right.  We are giving up a lot; I don't love the trade I proposed.  However, Frazier is a legit ML bat and Jonathan has filthy stuff and has TOR upside IMHO.  I also don't believe we are getting ML talent for our under-performing ML players (as a general principle / unless in unique acquiring team payroll scenarios)

Quote from fenn68 on November 30, 2019, 8:16 am

Quote from onlypads on November 30, 2019, 7:11 am

Quote from fenn68 on November 30, 2019, 5:51 am

If we think the Padres who have lost over 90 games 3 years in a row and finished 36 games behind the LAD for the NL WEST and 19 games (8 teams) out of the last Wild Card spot should be trading prospects to improve the ML roster for the very long odds of getting a wild card in 2020  .... then, is it not reasonable that a legit contender may deal some their high value prospects (with longer term value) to the Padres if the Padres can fill an immediate need for 2020.

Preller is capable of simultaneously working two tracks .... dealing to improve 2020-21 and dealing to improve the next 6 years. Not an either or situation. The Davies - Grisham deal demonstrates that.

It looks as though this winter contending teams seem to prize veteran catchers / CF / SP / RP with multiple teams in pursuit of a limited supply (and not much quality). Padres have multiple catchers, multiple ML ready candidates for #5 SP (Quantrill, Lucchesi, Bolanos). Plus IF they are willing to bet on Grisham being at a minimum having the same productivity as Margot (plus as a LHH playing 75% of the time anyway) .... Margot can be a sought after trade chip.

Preller is in a good position to squeeze maximum value out of his "excess" ML assets and his prospect trove. Can be adding prospects while trading away prospects.

What about Margot, Hedges, and Lucchesi/Cal for Clint Frazier and Jonathan Loiasiga? Upside for us.  Fill holes for them on the cheap (defensive catcher, ML SP, and CF) so that they can pursue TOR.  I don't believe those three players help us contend.  I think Clint and Jonathan make us better now and in the future, clears money, and frees up roster spots.

Probably does not work for the NYY. Don't really need a catcher with Sanchez around ... probably will re-sign Gardener for CF (better overall than Margot) ... good chance Loiasiga (was #66 on the Top 100) is already better (or at least equal) vs Lucchesi or Quantrill.

As for Frazier ... big defensive liability and (coming for deep memory) some personality issues were mentioned as he was dealt from Cleveland to NYY and while in NY. Still for some reason, NYY have been rejecting all overtures to trade him (maybe just hyping the price tag). Even is look past that ... another RHH corner OF may not be all that much of an upgrade to the full 26 man roster.

Quote from Henry Silvestre on November 30, 2019, 8:28 am

Quote from onlypads on November 30, 2019, 7:24 am

Quote from BoosterSD on November 30, 2019, 7:18 am

Quote from onlypads on November 30, 2019, 7:11 am

What about Margot, Hedges, and Lucchesi/Cal for Clint Frazier and Jonathan Loiasiga? Upside for us.  Fill holes for them on the cheap (defensive catcher, ML SP, and CF) so that they can pursue TOR.  I don't believe those three players help us contend.  I think Clint and Jonathan make us better now and in the future, clears money, and frees up roster spots.

Dont know enough about the pitcher, but not really that enthused about Frazier. He seems like Renfroe that cant field as well as Renfroe. Plus it would only save SD about $4.4M. I  think those players can better used either in house or for getting someone better than Frazier.

You certainly could be right.  We are giving up a lot; I don't love the trade I proposed.  However, Frazier is a legit ML bat and Jonathan has filthy stuff and has TOR upside IMHO.  I also don't believe we are getting ML talent for our under-performing ML players (as a general principle / unless in unique acquiring team payroll scenarios)

I think Margot has a lot of value tbh.. Also Hedges.. But say AJP wanted Contreras from Cubs.. A Hedges + Joey + Morejon package would be about right with maybe a lotto ticket low A ball spec coming with Contreras to us...

Quote from fenn68 on November 30, 2019, 8:41 am

The following is a bit convoluted but possible situation that could benefit the Padres via trade.

First, consider the plight of the king of the AL West ... Houston. Start with the known. FA after 2020 includes their entire OF of Brantley, Springer, Reddick, Marisnick. The also 1B Gurriel and RP Peacock. That is a lot of critical talent and expensive talent (about $70MM in 2020). Note that Correa is a FA after 2021. Catcher is already a weakness. Farm system is not filled with elite bats. That is already a set-up for the demise of Houston in 2021.

Second, consider the unknown (but potentially impactful) ... the consequences of any penalties derived from the cheating scandal. Penalties could include suspensions of the GM, manager .... loss of draft picks / international signing money ... fines (to be sure) ... etc

Put those two issues together and will that inhibit ownership from spending to re-sign their big FA (or other FA) and will it make quality FA less interested in signing on with Houston .. a team on the decline? Will other teams look like better options?

How does that help the Padres? Will the potential venerability of Houston motivate LAA, OAK, and even Texas to be more aggressive in building a contender for 2022-21 and become an eager trade partner for some Padre "excess". Would Houston be more amenable to adding (either now for one last hurrah or next winter to fill in the blanks) some of the Padres' "excess". In both cases might snare some quality prospects for "excess".

The sharks may be circling as they smell Houston's blood.

 

Quote from onlypads on November 30, 2019, 8:56 am

Quote from fenn68 on November 30, 2019, 8:16 am

Quote from onlypads on November 30, 2019, 7:11 am

Quote from fenn68 on November 30, 2019, 5:51 am

If we think the Padres who have lost over 90 games 3 years in a row and finished 36 games behind the LAD for the NL WEST and 19 games (8 teams) out of the last Wild Card spot should be trading prospects to improve the ML roster for the very long odds of getting a wild card in 2020  .... then, is it not reasonable that a legit contender may deal some their high value prospects (with longer term value) to the Padres if the Padres can fill an immediate need for 2020.

Preller is capable of simultaneously working two tracks .... dealing to improve 2020-21 and dealing to improve the next 6 years. Not an either or situation. The Davies - Grisham deal demonstrates that.

It looks as though this winter contending teams seem to prize veteran catchers / CF / SP / RP with multiple teams in pursuit of a limited supply (and not much quality). Padres have multiple catchers, multiple ML ready candidates for #5 SP (Quantrill, Lucchesi, Bolanos). Plus IF they are willing to bet on Grisham being at a minimum having the same productivity as Margot (plus as a LHH playing 75% of the time anyway) .... Margot can be a sought after trade chip.

Preller is in a good position to squeeze maximum value out of his "excess" ML assets and his prospect trove. Can be adding prospects while trading away prospects.

What about Margot, Hedges, and Lucchesi/Cal for Clint Frazier and Jonathan Loiasiga? Upside for us.  Fill holes for them on the cheap (defensive catcher, ML SP, and CF) so that they can pursue TOR.  I don't believe those three players help us contend.  I think Clint and Jonathan make us better now and in the future, clears money, and frees up roster spots.

Probably does not work for the NYY. Don't really need a catcher with Sanchez around ... probably will re-sign Gardener for CF (better overall than Margot) ... good chance Loiasiga (was #66 on the Top 100) is already better (or at least equal) vs Lucchesi or Quantrill.

As for Frazier ... big defensive liability and (coming for deep memory) some personality issues were mentioned as he was dealt from Cleveland to NYY and while in NY. Still for some reason, NYY have been rejecting all overtures to trade him (maybe just hyping the price tag). Even is look past that ... another RHH corner OF may not be all that much of an upgrade to the full 26 man roster.

Probably right. Jonathan likely makes it a no-go for NYY.

Sanchez is a defensive liability; however, great bat. Hedges as a defensive substitute could add value and depress SP/RP ERA in high leverage playoff situations where Sanchez made costly mistakes.  Margot gives them cheap CF flexibility which is still up in the air for NYY and defense (at best platoon so not sure if it helps them).  Jonathan has upside but has dealt with injuries; but yes already better / equal to either Cal or L.   NYY needs several back end SP options than can hold the fort down. I think Cal and Luc have demonstrated they can fill that role (but to be fair they need TOR to contend as well, and Loiasiga may be better than Garcia).  May need to package Q and L together to make it work -- and as mentioned that would cause us to lose all our non-prospect ML trade chips.  Then we are giving up a lot for a high upside, near ML / ML ready SP and bat. Trying to consolidate pieces that actually improve us with payroll in mind.

Imagine in 2021: (1) Paddack; (2) Lamet; (3) Gore; (4) Patino;  (5) Loiasiga; and (6) Davies to fill-in and avoid BP days (or flip).  Dominate, control, and cheap.

I still think we have a lot of LHH OF with Grisham, Cordero, Trammel, and Naylor right now as it is.  Meija, Camp, and Torrens as backstops is sufficient.  I think Frazier is a Naylor comp, but is better as compared to Naylor in every way: defense, arm, and bat and at worst works as a platoon.

Quote from onlypads on November 30, 2019, 9:04 am

Quote from Henry Silvestre on November 30, 2019, 8:28 am

Quote from onlypads on November 30, 2019, 7:24 am

Quote from BoosterSD on November 30, 2019, 7:18 am

Quote from onlypads on November 30, 2019, 7:11 am

What about Margot, Hedges, and Lucchesi/Cal for Clint Frazier and Jonathan Loiasiga? Upside for us.  Fill holes for them on the cheap (defensive catcher, ML SP, and CF) so that they can pursue TOR.  I don't believe those three players help us contend.  I think Clint and Jonathan make us better now and in the future, clears money, and frees up roster spots.

Dont know enough about the pitcher, but not really that enthused about Frazier. He seems like Renfroe that cant field as well as Renfroe. Plus it would only save SD about $4.4M. I  think those players can better used either in house or for getting someone better than Frazier.

You certainly could be right.  We are giving up a lot; I don't love the trade I proposed.  However, Frazier is a legit ML bat and Jonathan has filthy stuff and has TOR upside IMHO.  I also don't believe we are getting ML talent for our under-performing ML players (as a general principle / unless in unique acquiring team payroll scenarios)

I think Margot has a lot of value tbh.. Also Hedges.. But say AJP wanted Contreras from Cubs.. A Hedges + Joey + Morejon package would be about right with maybe a lotto ticket low A ball spec coming with Contreras to us...

Yeah. What to do with Meija then? Trade chip? I can work with Torrens and Contreras as backstops.

I honestly don't see Morejon being a starter with our rotation in 20 or 21 and he has value as a trade chip. So I am all for that.  I also wonder if Meija is Contreras in development so not sure giving up trade chips is worth it.