Quote from Randy Manese on September 19, 2020, 11:00 am

When Houston purposely tanked from 2011-2013, it was obvious they were going for the #1 draft choice every year so they could use those players as the cornerstone for the team several years in the future.   It worked but I think this is not going to happen again because (a) both the players association and management (in general) think it undermines the game and (b) the Astros, in particular, have been proven to be cheats.  I think the new CBA will have something like the NBA does in that there will be a lottery for the worst teams and draft picks will be accorded by random draw.  This could be for the first 10-15 picks or even for all teams that finished below .500 or .475 winning percentage, that's for the negotiations between management and the players union to decide.  So a total rebuild might be very difficult to do in the ways Houston did it, actually starting in 2010 and extending into 2014 if this happens in the next CBA.   Padres never really tanked, they were just bad and some player decisions didn't work out in the short run, however, the worm has turned and we should clinch our spot in the playoffs this weekend.

Quote from fenn68 on September 19, 2020, 12:15 pm

Well a really really bad Houston team may not be a purposeful move to tanking .... just the natural result of lack of talent resulting from a team based on some very expensive old players becoming FA during a period of financial restraint. They are not just dealing with one or two ... but the major core of their team ... they don't have the internal prospects to come close to filling those gaps. (should have added that a very old Grienke is also a FA after next season).

Maybe enough to keep their head afloat from being that 100 loss team ... but not enough to be considered locks for the playoffs and fair game to be picked off by the others in the AL West.

====

On the other had with Crane as the owner ... not sure what to expect including setting up the Astros to be sold.

Quote from Randy Manese on September 19, 2020, 1:04 pm

I think they'll look a lot like the Angels with two or three good to excellent players and inconsistently bad on the mound.  You're right - probably a good time to sell.

Quote from Brian Connelly on September 20, 2020, 10:27 am

Quote from fenn68 on September 15, 2020, 2:17 pm

As a former Cleveland fan (as a kid) ... the trajectory of the franchise is going south really quickly ... all to totally shed payroll. This winter they will move Lindor and not pick-up some key options. May not care all that much about the players they got in return.

Would not be surprised if the owners are setting up for a sale ... ballpark lease is up very soon ... TV contract (with a relative’s corporation) is up soon ... principle owner is old (inherited as I recall and not as baseball oriented as his father). Clean the decks of unsightly obligations makes a sale easier.

Expect some noise around a potential new owner and / or relocation to ?

Yeh, has to be heading to some depressing time for Cleveland fans.

Wow.  Interesting insight I didn't know.  Obvious they were probably in their last year of contention, then facing a rebuild, but didn't know things were this bad for the franchise!   Do you REALLY think they're a potential Relo possibility?

Quote from Brian Connelly on September 20, 2020, 10:37 am

Re:   Verlander

1.  Do feel sorry for any player injured, especially major ones.
2. Like Tom Brady, it's a little hard to feel too sorry for Verlander given his career, contract, & who his wife is.
3. I do NOT feel sorry for Astros owner Jim Crane... "kharma's a bitch"
4. THIS is why you don't extend SP's.  Not like it's an isolated example; just an extreme one.

Quote from fenn68 on September 20, 2020, 10:57 am

Quote from Brian Connelly on September 20, 2020, 10:27 am

Quote from fenn68 on September 15, 2020, 2:17 pm

As a former Cleveland fan (as a kid) ... the trajectory of the franchise is going south really quickly ... all to totally shed payroll. This winter they will move Lindor and not pick-up some key options. May not care all that much about the players they got in return.

Would not be surprised if the owners are setting up for a sale ... ballpark lease is up very soon ... TV contract (with a relative’s corporation) is up soon ... principle owner is old (inherited as I recall and not as baseball oriented as his father). Clean the decks of unsightly obligations makes a sale easier.

Expect some noise around a potential new owner and / or relocation to ?

Yeh, has to be heading to some depressing time for Cleveland fans.

Wow.  Interesting insight I didn't know.  Obvious they were probably in their last year of contention, then facing a rebuild, but didn't know things were this bad for the franchise!   Do you REALLY think they're a potential Relo possibility?

Relocation probably a long shot ... getting MLB approval would be difficult considering they still are in the background using cities without ML franchises as a bit of leverage on TB and OAK to ensure new ballparks but any sale (much more probable) will take a couple of years to finalize post the new CBA and by then MLB might be in a position to make final calls on TB/OAK situations.

The relocation push probably would come from a new owner ... maybe more aligned with a different city. Ballpark is still in good shape (about 25 years old I think) but a new city ... new ballpark ... new TV contract ... larger fanbase has more value to a new owner who does not have any ties to Cleveland which is somewhat limited in NorthEast Ohio ... Pitt to the East, CINN to the South, DET to the West are all close and take a lot of Ohio fans. Not sure there is any big money person / group in the Cleveland area that can (would) put up the money needed to buy the franchise.

IF OAK (which seem likely with a new ballpark at least moving forward) and TB stay put ... Montreal and Nashville will be very aggressive in pushing a relocation or expansion. Guessing Buffalo, San Antonio, and some others will also be pushing. Could see a changing landscape once the new CBA is finalized ... new or relocating franchise generally generates more money for the other owners.

Quote from fenn68 on September 20, 2020, 11:01 am

Quote from Brian Connelly on September 20, 2020, 10:37 am

Re:   Verlander

1.  Do feel sorry for any player injured, especially major ones.
2. Like Tom Brady, it's a little hard to feel too sorry for Verlander given his career, contract, & who his wife is.
3. I do NOT feel sorry for Astros owner Jim Crane... "kharma's a bitch"
4. THIS is why you don't extend SP's.  Not like it's an isolated example; just an extreme one.

Right, put your money into position players if you are doing long term deals (less risk of injury and generally least risk of a dip in production) and keep the prospects in the system loaded with pitching first and keep rotating them up to provide a cheap base.

Quote from Brian Connelly on September 20, 2020, 1:28 pm

Quote from fenn68 on September 20, 2020, 11:01 am

Quote from Brian Connelly on September 20, 2020, 10:37 am

Re:   Verlander

1.  Do feel sorry for any player injured, especially major ones.
2. Like Tom Brady, it's a little hard to feel too sorry for Verlander given his career, contract, & who his wife is.
3. I do NOT feel sorry for Astros owner Jim Crane... "kharma's a bitch"
4. THIS is why you don't extend SP's.  Not like it's an isolated example; just an extreme one.

Right, put your money into position players if you are doing long term deals (less risk of injury and generally least risk of a dip in production) and keep the prospects in the system loaded with pitching first and keep rotating them up to provide a cheap base.

Yup.  Ride SP's up the Arbitration ladder.  If only we were set up to do so for the next 5-7 years... oh, wait we are 🙂

Quote from LynchMob on September 25, 2020, 6:51 am

I hadn't noticed what Devin Williams of the Brewers is doing ...

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/willide03.shtml

Only 6 hits and 1 run in 25 IPs with 52 Ks!  Oh, my!

That's a 1268 ERA+!

That's a Maddux/Hoffman changeup!