Quote from fenn68 on August 10, 2020, 12:32 pm

Have to make the rules as they go along .... too many permutations to guess the future with any certainty.

IF STL gets to a certain point without playing (only 5 games played) might just shut down the season for STL ... all their opponents would end up being impacted equally (sort of) since Central only plays Central teams. Guessing the League may even do some scheduling modifications for the remaining Central teams. No one plays 60 but play basically the same number to determine a Central winner and 2nd place.

Almost a worse case to bring STL back with massive double headers and them using alternate site players ... hurts the opponents being dragged through that excess work in a compressed timeframe.

Not sure at what point MLB might see STL playing worse that not playing ... but has to be getting close.

Now if the STL scenario pops up with other teams .... new game plan.

Quote from WindsorUK on August 11, 2020, 11:06 am

Anyone else see this story?

https://www.mlb.com/news/mike-clevinger-violates-indians-club-protocol

I've got just one question.....how DUMB are these guys??????

Clevinger KNEW exactly what happened to Plesac, was with him(https://www.espn.co.uk/mlb/story/_/id/29635888/indians-mike-clevinger-miss-start-violating-protocol) and yet he had the temerity to get on the plane with his teammates( didn't Francona already have the virus????).

Should anyone else on that team get sick, the Indians season is over! A lot of guys will lose LOADS of money....I can't imagine they'll appreciate his stupidity when it impacts their livelihood.

Some of these guys just aren't getting how serious this thing is.  When they lose the rest of their salary, maybe it'll hit home.

Quote from MrPadre19 on August 11, 2020, 11:30 am

Quote from fenn68 on August 10, 2020, 12:32 pm

Have to make the rules as they go along .... too many permutations to guess the future with any certainty.

IF STL gets to a certain point without playing (only 5 games played) might just shut down the season for STL ... all their opponents would end up being impacted equally (sort of) since Central only plays Central teams. Guessing the League may even do some scheduling modifications for the remaining Central teams. No one plays 60 but play basically the same number to determine a Central winner and 2nd place.

Almost a worse case to bring STL back with massive double headers and them using alternate site players ... hurts the opponents being dragged through that excess work in a compressed timeframe.

Not sure at what point MLB might see STL playing worse that not playing ... but has to be getting close.

Now if the STL scenario pops up with other teams .... new game plan.

If you "just" shut down the Cardinals than three other teams can only play a max of 50 games.

Others will also play less than 60.

What happens then when the Padres...or any team,looses out on the playoffs due to percentage points to a team that didn't play but

80% of the season?

All because one team didn't follow protocol.

IMO the Cardinals are the team that should have to suffer the consequences....not trying to be harsh but its on them whether it was completely unavoidable or not.So they should have to do whatever needs done to try to get as many games in as possible.

If that means using multiple minor leaguers or playing multiple double headers, so be it.

 

 

Quote from fenn68 on August 11, 2020, 12:06 pm

My concern with STL making up the rest of their games is not with STL but with the teams that have to play them. The opponents will suffer with a condensed workload in their pennant race ... maybe increase the chance of injury / wear and tear on their players hurting the opponents chances in the playoffs. Not a good scenario for MILW, PITT, CUBS, DET with extra games while CINN gets off unscathed.

MLB can quickly make a minimum game requirement to make the playoffs and even could just eliminate a wild card coming from the NL Central.

If they just shut down STL ... from a competitive standpoint in the two centrals ... every team would play the same number of games (in the AL and in the NL) except +3 for PITT and +2 for MINN. MLB could just void those results and every central team is “equal” in their league. All the NL Central teams would get 50 games and all the AL Central teams would get 56 games.

Still fair for the 1st and 2nd place finishers. Then maybe just to the East and West for the two wild card teams.

Not elegant solution ... but does eliminate the small chance the cause of this circus (STL) does not perversely get hot and actually make the playoffs at the expense of the other teams that got sucked into this quagmire.

Quote from fenn68 on August 11, 2020, 2:29 pm

Quote from WindsorUK on August 11, 2020, 11:06 am

Anyone else see this story?

https://www.mlb.com/news/mike-clevinger-violates-indians-club-protocol

I've got just one question.....how DUMB are these guys??????

Clevinger KNEW exactly what happened to Plesac, was with him(https://www.espn.co.uk/mlb/story/_/id/29635888/indians-mike-clevinger-miss-start-violating-protocol) and yet he had the temerity to get on the plane with his teammates( didn't Francona already have the virus????).

Should anyone else on that team get sick, the Indians season is over! A lot of guys will lose LOADS of money....I can't imagine they'll appreciate his stupidity when it impacts their livelihood.

Some of these guys just aren't getting how serious this thing is.  When they lose the rest of their salary, maybe it'll hit home.

Both Plesac and Clevenger are inactivated and for now pending consecutive negative tests.

However, some discussion of more severe penalties may be in the offing. MLB is waiting in the wings to see what Cleveland does before stepping in. The league (and teams) have been pounding the rules into the heads of the players ... so there is a feeling that a couple days off for testing may not send a strong enough message to every other player.

Two week suspension for rules violation? Two of the key Cleveland SP would basically kill their season since pitching is all they have. Would think their relationship with their teammates would become really strained ... costing they a playoff shot.

Always remember 2020 is about getting the league to the playoffs (no matter which teams make it).

Quote from Randy Manese on August 11, 2020, 3:48 pm

This was so wrong on so many levels.  Firstly, let's hope that teammates are at risk (or even their families) are not adversely affected by their selfishness.  Secondly, as an industry or organization you have to go beyond this year's short term goals and look at what are we trying to build here in Cleveland and for the image of baseball in general.  Whatever is meted out to them, they have earned and if our Padres players did such a thing, that would forever taint my impression of that person beyond whatever contributions I hope to see from that player or players on the field.  Clevenger's failure to hold himself accountable is particularly shameful.

Quote from Brian Connelly on August 11, 2020, 4:04 pm

Quote from fenn68 on August 11, 2020, 12:06 pm

My concern with STL making up the rest of their games is not with STL but with the teams that have to play them. The opponents will suffer with a condensed workload in their pennant race ... maybe increase the chance of injury / wear and tear on their players hurting the opponents chances in the playoffs. Not a good scenario for MILW, PITT, CUBS, DET with extra games while CINN gets off unscathed.

MLB can quickly make a minimum game requirement to make the playoffs and even could just eliminate a wild card coming from the NL Central.

If they just shut down STL ... from a competitive standpoint in the two centrals ... every team would play the same number of games (in the AL and in the NL) except +3 for PITT and +2 for MINN. MLB could just void those results and every central team is “equal” in their league. All the NL Central teams would get 50 games and all the AL Central teams would get 56 games.

Still fair for the 1st and 2nd place finishers. Then maybe just to the East and West for the two wild card teams.

Not elegant solution ... but does eliminate the small chance the cause of this circus (STL) does not perversely get hot and actually make the playoffs at the expense of the other teams that got sucked into this quagmire.

Agree there has to be a clear demarcation between teams suffering "collateral damage" and the ones who caused the damage...

... HAVE to have some minimum # of games St Louis (& Miami, and any subsequent, including us) has to play to have a chance to qualify for playoffs.  Shouldn't just arbitrarily say "they can't make playoffs", but they should not get rewarded for playing fewer games.  In my mind it's 45 -50 bare minimum; should still have to play if will fall short of that, but just blocked from playoffs like an NCAA basketball team with a recruiting violation!

Quote from fenn68 on August 11, 2020, 4:32 pm

I agree that a minimum number of games needs to be in place ... but probably would go higher than 50 ... maybe 55-56. Would find it still hard to accept a team only playing 5/6ths or less of a season and get awarded a playoff spot on winning % ... too short a season / too few games.

I guess you could go on # of wins ... forget the winning percentage ... and that would put pressure on the teams not playing a full slate ... but that also impacts the STL "innocent" opponents ... so not great either. On the other hand, playoff spots go to the #1 and #2 place finishers in the NL Central ... if all the NL Central teams are impacted ... and most of the games are played ... maybe not a big issue for the NL Central.

Might be more concerned about selecting the two wild card opponents where a shorten number of games could work to the advantage of a NL Central team if the selection is solely based on winning %. We have seen 10 games streaks of 9-1 or 1-9 and all teams not playing those 10 games (or similar levels) is a real equity issue.

No "right" solution here ... I could go "hard ball" and just seed the leagues based on number of wins and forget winning %.

Quote from MrPadre19 on August 11, 2020, 7:13 pm

Quote from fenn68 on August 11, 2020, 12:06 pm

My concern with STL making up the rest of their games is not with STL but with the teams that have to play them. The opponents will suffer with a condensed workload in their pennant race ... maybe increase the chance of injury / wear and tear on their players hurting the opponents chances in the playoffs. Not a good scenario for MILW, PITT, CUBS, DET with extra games while CINN gets off unscathed.

MLB can quickly make a minimum game requirement to make the playoffs and even could just eliminate a wild card coming from the NL Central.

If they just shut down STL ... from a competitive standpoint in the two centrals ... every team would play the same number of games (in the AL and in the NL) except +3 for PITT and +2 for MINN. MLB could just void those results and every central team is “equal” in their league. All the NL Central teams would get 50 games and all the AL Central teams would get 56 games.

Still fair for the 1st and 2nd place finishers. Then maybe just to the East and West for the two wild card teams.

Not elegant solution ... but does eliminate the small chance the cause of this circus (STL) does not perversely get hot and actually make the playoffs at the expense of the other teams that got sucked into this quagmire.

The premiere athletes of our generation can play some double headers.

They played them regularly not so long ago.

The Cardinals would be playing “a lot” of them...the other teams on their schedule would only be playing a few each.

Not ideal......but the a Marlins are going to have to play some to get caught up......the Cardinals should have too also.

They may not be able to get to 60 now.....but I just believe every attempt to get as many games in should be made.