Quote from 3fingersplit on May 4, 2019, 11:21 pm

Quote from David Nevin on May 3, 2019, 7:09 pm

Boy that Pirates/Rays trade for Archer could really end up on the list of worse ever.

Glasnow could make the Rays go back to back on Cy Young’s this season.

Meadows was playing well before he got hurt and will be back soon.

Meanwhile Archer has been very average.

The Pirates seem to never really know what they have in a player....other than McCutcheon and they even let

him go too soon.

 

I thought you were all in on the Padres trading everything and then some to get Archer from the Rays ?

Quote from MrPadre19 on May 5, 2019, 5:07 am

“Everything and then some”?

Uh.....no.

I may have suggested he was worth trading for but certainly not for much.

And that trade is looking bad because of what Glasnow and Meadows are doing...not because of Archer.

He’s pretty much the #2-#3 Starter he was expected to be.

 

 

Quote from MrPadre19 on May 5, 2019, 5:30 am

Yeah so I found my “idea” for Archer.

It was Mejia/Naylor/Quantrill.

If that’s your idea of “everything and then some” ?

That’s certainly not  Glasnow and Meadows.

 

Quote from fenn68 on May 5, 2019, 8:07 am

Since I was not a fan of Archer ... clearly a bad trade for Pittsburgh BUT given the circumstances on July 31, 2018 ... not as bad as it turned out (or at least appears) to be.

Remember they were only 3 games out of the Wild Card ... a team (city) that needed to make that final push for the playoffs. IF the Padres were in the same situation the local fans would be clamoring for giving up a lot of prospects for that "final piece".

Plus consider at that time Glasnow was 24 (struggling as a prospect) coming off a poor 2017 (7.69 ERA) and as struggling as a RP in 2018 (4.34 ERA). Meadows was a legit prospect at 22 (Top 100 type) but Pitt had OF. TB was not dealing Archer for zip so TB wins ... at least that is how it look if Glasnow holds up past this first 7 starts.

As for Archer ... in 2018 (other than pitching innings) he had every indication he was past his use by date as a top of the rotation arm. His first 3 years were excellent (about a 3.20 ERA while making all his starts) .... the 2 1/2 years prior to the deal he had dropped off to about a 4.10 ERA ... more a 3-5 starter than a top of the rotation arm.

======

Did see a note a couple of weeks ago that lumped Archer, Snynergaard, and Jon Gray into a group whose peripheral stats look much better than their run prevention / game success. Sort of a way to say "over-rated" if winning is important.

Quote from MrPadre19 on May 5, 2019, 8:53 am

Archers’ numbers this season(before he went on the IL) aren’t that bad.

But Glasnow and Meadows are playing at All Star levels and them some.

The  Pirates always seem to trade players just as they get good or just before.

Teams like that take a bit of the sting out of being a Padre fan.

 

 

Quote from fenn68 on May 5, 2019, 9:27 am

Quote from David Nevin on May 5, 2019, 8:53 am

Archers’ numbers this season(before he went on the IL) aren’t that bad.

But Glasnow and Meadows are playing at All Star levels and them some.

The  Pirates always seem to trade players just as they get good or just before.

Teams like that take a bit of the sting out of being a Padre fan.

 

 

I doubt the Pirates are all that please with numbers that "aren't that bad" at the cost of $7.8MM and the loss of Glasnow / Meadows.

Actually Archer (4.33 ERA) was pitching just a bit less effectively than Lauer (4.30 ERA). That is pretty much in line with this past 3 seasons. For starters with 25+ innings, both are sitting in the 70s rank in both ERA and WAR.

As the Pirates drop out of 2019 contention (and if Archer is healthy) ... would expect him to be marketed at the trade deadline. Not sure the Pirates have the pieces to contend in 2020-21 and financially would not likely want to pick-up the next two club options ($9MM / $11MM) for a pitcher who is settling into an innings eater at the end of the rotation of a good team.

Quote from MrPadre19 on May 5, 2019, 9:53 am

That’s what I mean.

Archer is pretty much pitching like he has the last few years.

The Pirates just misjudged Glasnow and Meadows and gave way too much.

Quote from Brian Connelly on May 6, 2019, 10:54 am

Quote from David Nevin on May 5, 2019, 9:53 am

That’s what I mean.

Archer is pretty much pitching like he has the last few years.

The Pirates just misjudged Glasnow and Meadows and gave way too much.

Agree.  Archer is clearly not the guy he once was.  Same thing COULD/will happen to everyone eventually with age (i.e.Kluber), but some guys just trade on their past reputation or "potential", and Archer just really seems like one of those guys to me.

Quote from MrPadre19 on May 7, 2019, 10:38 am

Checking the standings......amazingly the Brewers have played "Six" more games than the Pirates.

That seems a pretty wide gap for so early in the season.