Quote from BoosterSD on December 12, 2022, 8:16 am

No rumors on this, reading on CBS how Cohen and the NYM are just spending because he can. Anyway, in the article, they are talking about how NYM could reduce payroll if they want, by making some trades. One player they mention is Eduardo Escobar. He is a SH player that has played 3B, 2B, SS, along with a few games in LF and at 1B.

Would SD be interested in Escobar instead of Profar?

Profar is younger (30 at season start) and better with the OBP. Escobar (30 at season start) is the better slugger and probably better defensively in the INF. Both are SH, and Escobar is under contract for $9.5M, with an option for 2024 at the same price. Whereas Profar is probably going over the $10-12M mark for a contract AAV.

Would a Pomeranz/Escobar trade work for both? Or IF NYM were looking to shed some salary, maybe Rosario/Kerr and some cash to SD for Escobar?

Quote from fenn68 on December 12, 2022, 9:34 am

Quote from BoosterSD on December 12, 2022, 7:22 am

Quote from Henry Silvestre on December 12, 2022, 6:54 am

Kind of intrigued by Seth Lugo as an option.. perhaps with a guy like Davies as well... remember we also have Teheran /Wethers/Avila/Groome/Khner/Poppen/etc.. with very low bars (Sean and Clev's 2022 seasons) to clear/improve on

 

Post season wise .. Lugo/Martinez become those BP dudes everyone loves to have

I am starting to like the idea of either Wacha or Kluber. With leaning towards Wacha. Made 23 starts last season, averaged 5.5 innings per start, and threw to a 3.32 ERA and a 1.115 WHIP. Pitching in SD, with our park and defense, should allow that ERA to come down a bit as well.

I am greedy, I want Wacha/Kluber and Davies. Cant have enough SP!

Well you can have too much SP if you are limited to 13 pitchers on the roster and most without minor league options.

As it stands, pitchers without minor league options: Darvish, Snell, Musgrove, Martinez, Crismatt, Hader, Pomeranz, Suarez, Garcia ... that is already 9 of the 13 (did not include either Poppen or Lopez who can't be option but are unlikely to break the 26 man).

Likely on the 26 man are Morejon, Hill, Wilson, one TBD who is likely the #5 SP.

Bumping one of those optional 3 for another SP hurts the bullpen and exchanges a low cost arm for a high cost arm to likely sit in the pen. Should add that no respectable SP is going to sign to be a RP and hurt there future value ... Martinez is not (to start the season) going back to the pen.

So, yes you can have too much SP. However, watch at the trade deadline if some of the early season starters get injured / fail and the AAA options also fail. Sign one ... sign a Teheran type for AAA.

Quote from fenn68 on December 12, 2022, 9:47 am

The projected 2023 for Kluber, Wacha, and Davies is not all that much different (so a bit of buyer's preference and team scouting). All are projected around 150 innings and a mid to upper 4 ERA.

Kluber (36) may have the higher upside gamble and at this age maybe only a one year deal (or one with an option) ... not sure with any of these three want to take the risk of guaranteed longer.

Wacha (31) makes a case for that longer deal

Davies (29) is projected slightly lower than the other two. I liked Davies over a 162 game season but because of his limited stuff always worried about him versus quality hitting clubs (or in the playoffs). Kluber or Wacha has a better chance to step in to a key role if one of the top three goes down for the playoffs.

$10 - 12 MM ... feel better about Kluber on a short deal ... have his money in 2024 to re-sign Darvish / Snell and seek other options (maybe internal) for the 5th SP.

Quote from fenn68 on December 12, 2022, 10:13 am

Quote from BoosterSD on December 12, 2022, 8:16 am

No rumors on this, reading on CBS how Cohen and the NYM are just spending because he can. Anyway, in the article, they are talking about how NYM could reduce payroll if they want, by making some trades. One player they mention is Eduardo Escobar. He is a SH player that has played 3B, 2B, SS, along with a few games in LF and at 1B.

Would SD be interested in Escobar instead of Profar?

Profar is younger (30 at season start) and better with the OBP. Escobar (30 at season start) is the better slugger and probably better defensively in the INF. Both are SH, and Escobar is under contract for $9.5M, with an option for 2024 at the same price. Whereas Profar is probably going over the $10-12M mark for a contract AAV.

Would a Pomeranz/Escobar trade work for both? Or IF NYM were looking to shed some salary, maybe Rosario/Kerr and some cash to SD for Escobar?

For what will be basically the same money I opt for Profar over Escobar. Escobar has the better power (at least with NYM) but Profar has the better OBP. Given the RBI capacities of the big bats in the line-up, like the OBP putting more pressure on the pitchers. Profar has the better defensive versatility and can play INF and OF which is more valuable with a weak set of bench options. Escobar in recent years is a 3B (some 2B) and not a good fielder.

Does not appear that Cohen cares at all about his payroll and since Escobar is their starting 3B not sure he would turn over 3B to a rookie option to save money.

On the other hand, looks as though the METS may be needing more RP ... Padres have RP ... hmmm. One thought if Pomeranz looks healthy in ST ... a ST move by the Padres to save some money and give the 3rd LHRP slot to Morejon or Castillo, or Lopez, or Cosgrove, or Kerr. Not much a return. A second thought (takes more from the Padres) is target one of their 3B prospects in Baty (big prospect) or Vientos (3B/1B) both could help 2023 and beyond. Probably would take a bundle of a ML RP and a quality prospect (Morejon and ?).

 

Quote from Henry Silvestre on December 12, 2022, 10:22 am

Been kicking the idea of Alejandro Kirk for Jake .. type move.. Helps JAYS  Repurpose resources and Helps Pads the same.. But creates a 1B ? And we lose a lefty bat.. Crone = more pop.. Kirk = good D C and great pure hitter (DH - 81/C -81)... maybe expand deal to include utility ace Biggio and a BP arm or 2 (Cristmatt + 1) going to Jays... Cant see it unless we sign/trade for a 1B .. and add a Brantley or resign Profar to +1 a bat from the left side .

Arraez is also an intriguing trade for player .. FA wise Anderson/Wil/Drury/Voit/Brantley and others make some sense with such a move..

Quote from Randy Manese on December 12, 2022, 10:23 am

It's a crazy market when our two worst SP's by far down the stretch both get over 12M to sign.  Don't think they'll go after Rodon or Bassitt or Eovaldi, but will sign one low cost option before the end of the year and then see what develops in the trade market prior to spring training.  With Darvish and Snell both potentially gone after 2023, have to look long term to fill out the top of the rotation so unless we get an extension or two, we probably are just going to try to depend on our offense when we throw out our 4th, 5th and 6th starters.

To that end, probably still looking to extend the line-up with a impactful 6th place hitter, preferably a left-handed bat but any hitter who can drive in runs.  Given that Grisham and Kim are mainly in the line-up for defensive purposes, looking at this possible line-up after Tatis returns:    Tatis, Cronenworth, Machado, Soto, Bogaerts, open spot, Kim, Grisham, Nola.  I think Cronenworth will especially benefit from having this powerful top of the order line-up and it might help the others at the bottom of the order also.  Also, I'm swinging over to Gallo over Benintendi/Profar/Brantley on a lower cost 2 year deal with a club option for a 3rd year.  Gallo is better defensively in the OF than either of the other 3 options and hopefully will be able to get his OBP back to a decent level even though his BA won't ever be high.  Further, in this line-up believe Kim will better his batting stats over last year (possibly to .265+) and Grisham has the potential to rebound to at least the .240 level.  Could even add a low cost RH bat to platoon with Gallo at DH - maybe Voit or Reyes.  A lot of swing and miss at the bottom of the line-up but also a potentially lot of damage when they connect.  If the rumors are true about Vazquez at C, then he is better offensively and defensively than Nola and will help at the bottom of this line-up, possibly in the 7th spot, with Grisham and Kim flip-flopping.

Quote from Henry Silvestre on December 12, 2022, 11:00 am

Keep in mind we used 28 Pitchers (+ Batten and Wil a fee times)...and 27 position players in 2022... I expect a little less position player usage in 2023...with a bunch of warriors who have a history of many a 150 games played seasons... but still likely to use at least 20... Pitching wise is usually 28-30 the amount of P a team uses as injuries/illness/and double headers and trades happen

Quote from BoosterSD on December 12, 2022, 11:04 am

Quote from Randy Manese on December 12, 2022, 10:23 am

To that end, probably still looking to extend the line-up with a impactful 6th place hitter, preferably a left-handed bat but any hitter who can drive in runs.  Also, I'm swinging over to Gallo over Benintendi/Profar/Brantley on a lower cost 2 year deal with a club option for a 3rd year.  Gallo is better defensively in the OF than either of the other 3 options and hopefully will be able to get his OBP back to a decent level even though his BA won't ever be high.

I know that I have campaigned for Gallo in the past, and we all know that Preller loves his TEX guys, I just dont see how Gallo can be counted on as #6 hitter in this line up. His numbers keep tumbling down. Went and looked, Gallo compared to Grisham. Now mind you that Gallo has about 1100 more ABs than Grisham, but Grisham has the better lifetime numbers in BA .222 to .199 Gallo, and for Gallo's "great eye" he only has an .09 points advantage over Grisham. Sure Gallo has the much better slug percentage, but for the price tag of $8-10M, dont think Gallo moves the needle for SD at all.

I would go Brantley over Gallo, and Benintendi over Brantley, especially with Benintendi's age, turning 29 during the 2023 season, he is an OFer that help the team for a few seasons.

Quote from Henry Silvestre on December 12, 2022, 11:07 am

342 IP is what we need to make up with the exodus of Gore/Clev/Sean.. around 4.60 ERA... say Martinez covers +50 more SP minutes vs his 2022 IP.. and that leaves 292 IP to be covered