Quote from fenn68 on February 2, 2021, 12:24 pm

Quote from MrPadre19 on February 2, 2021, 12:11 pm

I believe one of the biggest issues for the Players is that this new agreement doesn't have any safeguards about other lost games or season stoppage.

If they don't play the full agreed upon games(154?) then they aren't guaranteed to still get their full pay.

 

Get the lawyers!

As I recall last year part of the debate was around a contract is for the season (in this case 2021) and not the number of games played (no automatic proration) ... at least as prescribed in the current CBA. However, if there is an agreement that changes the part of the CBA that prescribes 162 games does that automatically alter the protection on the full contract? Doubt the players want to open that as a loophole and would want new negotiation with the owners IF more games need to be cancelled or full salary protection ... not a free reign by Manfred. However, that is easily addressed in any agreement now.

 

Quote from MrPadre19 on February 2, 2021, 1:14 pm

Yeah there was something else about if they counter offered then they were basically opening up the current agreement for negotiations.As long as they never countered the current agreement remains valid and binding.

Or something like that.....which would explain why they haven't countered.

 

Quote from Brian Connelly on February 3, 2021, 6:58 am

I thought last year proved conclusively that P's DO need a full length ST to stretch out fully so they're ready for the start of a season.

Quote from fenn68 on February 3, 2021, 7:48 am

Too many variables between 2019 and 2020 to create a cause and effect conclusion. However:

2020 (Aug ... 1st full month): 4.49 ERA / 8.99 K/9 in MLB (all pitchers)

2019 (Apr - 1st full month): 4.35 ERA / 8.96 K/9 in MLB (all pitchers)

Not a statistically significant difference .... even with a ST that started on time then stopped then restarted in a shorter version. Add that starting a season in Aug vs Apr should be impacted by weather conditions ... but apparently not. Could argue August on 2020 was not a normal environment for game prep, etc. and should cause a difference from a normal Apr ... but apparently not.

Some pitchers started slowly (but that happens every season) .... some pitchers got hurt (but that happens every season).

Expect that the pitchers (and coaches) are smart enough to alter the ramp-up plan to deal with a shorter ST. Plus, the “smarter” pitchers have pre-ST conditioning / ramp-up routines coordinated with the team. What is the right length for ST ... no idea but apparently the 6 week model has questionable value for the pitchers that make the opening day roster.

Maybe it gives more time for the marginal arms / prospects to showcase to earn a slot vs having to prove the readiness in the minors.

Quote from Brian Connelly on February 3, 2021, 8:21 am

Quote from Brian Connelly on February 3, 2021, 6:58 am

I thought last year proved conclusively that P's DO need a full length ST to stretch out fully so they're ready for the start of a season.

Fenn, I meant with regard to injuries.   I thought it was pretty well documented there were more last year.

Also, the short ramp up plus mega bullpens with 30 active on roster shortened the SP's outings collectively I'm guessing, so could argue that those "same" #'s are worse b/c they reflect shorter SP outings & more RP usage (with more time off FOR the RP's due to expanded rosters)

Quote from fenn68 on February 3, 2021, 9:09 am

Another variable that clouds the issue.

The second ST was only 3 weeks long after a 3 month layoff ... so probably starting from scratch in an unusual set of conditions. Too short (hence the extra pitchers to start the season) probably but what is the appropriate level ... still may be less than 6 weeks.

From a different perspective, MLB did deploy extra pitchers to offset the situation (in theory) and the end result in overall MLB pitching remained the same. So, MLB can deploy alternative strategies to offset any perceived issues.

If the key objective is play baseball in a regular season environment .... in 2021 .... need to be “creative”.

Quote from hoffy51 on February 6, 2021, 12:29 pm

Has anyone seen anything about when pitchers and catchers report?

Quote from fenn68 on February 6, 2021, 1:14 pm

Quote from hoffy51 on February 6, 2021, 12:29 pm

Has anyone seen anything about when pitchers and catchers report?

Think it is the 17th .... know the equipment trucks departed SD for Peoria a couple of days ago. Position players a few days later.

First ST game is the Sat. 27th.

Have not heard any word on the non-roster players being invited to ML camp ... usually 20-30ish. Just need bodies to play those early ST games since not going with the first team full bore this early. Plus need catchers just to work all the pitchers on the side-lines.

Also, have not heard any final word on the start of the minor league seasons (below AAA) which impacts when is minor league camp convenes and that in-turn may impact who is added as non-roster to the ML camp.

Quote from fenn68 on February 6, 2021, 1:21 pm

For safety reasons ... maybe ML camp is the 40 man roster plus the “presumed” AAA roster with a few pitchers battling for a AAA slot. That should give a cushion for injuries and roster battles.

The other minor leagues just get held back (told to work on their own) and arrive as the ML camp breaks the last week in March. ML and AAA start on time.