Quote from Brian Connelly on February 2, 2021, 8:31 am

The league would have been willing to push back the season without expanded playoffs and the universal DH had the MLBPA made a counterproposal, Heyman tweets. The union declined to do so, as Heyman notes the players would rather start the season on time because of concerns over injuries.

I think this is going to blow up in the MLBPA's face.  They could have pushed MLB back to maybe 148 games at full (162 game) pay; same delayed start with a less compressed schedule,  no DH, no expanded playoffs.  I know union had concerns about Manfred's ability to alter the shorter schedule down the road, but it is beyond naive to think that the 162 game season is not going to get disrupted.

Saying "we did it safely/well last year" is utterly ridiculous.  First, they didn't.  Had to ridiculously bend over backwards insanely compressed schedules for Cardinals & Rays after outbreaks.  Injuries to especially P's were widespread & clearly higher than a normal season given how few games.  Secondly, Our kids' schools didn't go in person in Sept b/c Covid cases were  just over 75 cases/100K.  Now they're going back in person with cases > 350/100K ... literally 5x higher than < 6 months ago.  BUT they're going very limited hours; 10-20% of a normal school week, and in very small groups, 6' distance, masks, etc.   MLB by contrast is going to go back to it's full league/nationwide travel schedule for a season almost 3 times longer than last year with the prevalance of Covid 5x higher... they CAN'T modify... even to the extent they did last year.

If EITHER side REALLY cared about player (and how about coaches, trainers, clubhouse staff, umpires) health & safety, delaying season a month with no loss in pay for fewer (little or no fans in attendance) games is an utter no-brainer.

But Owners could have presented this offer any time.  Waiting until now cynically meant to pressure the players and really might have had negative consequences embedded in language like making it easier for Manfred to cancel games, costing players $.

BUT MLB players "worried about injury" 2 weeks before ST starts.... when SP throw what 25? 30? pitches their 1st starts...  B.S.!

Quote from Brian Connelly on February 2, 2021, 8:44 am

I know it would look like caring for the priviledged, but I believe MLBPA AND owners should lobby at State & Federal levels that they could vaccinate their entire MLB & Minors system players, coaches, trainers, clubhouse staff, umpires, & anyone else in close contact with players during a baseball season with....  maybe 20,000 vaccinations total?

Conservatively say 200 players, 50 coaches, 50 staff, 25 trainers, 25 umpires "per MLB team"  = 350 x 30 = 10,000+.

Centralize vaccs at the 2 ST sites with all getting 1st dose upon arrival / intake physical.   2nd vacc before leaving (even if cut).  The time in camp roughly fits this schedule.

Could make a "national interest" case unlike other sports b/c of the breadth/prevalance of Minors teams across U.S.   A little tough to "sell" with so many higher risk still waiting to get vacc, but in the big picture 10K 1st doses bumps 10K people from getting the vacc by 1 day if that.

Quote from Brian Connelly on February 2, 2021, 8:47 am

IF  owners & MLBPA are REALLY done negotiating season length/DH/playoffs/etc (believe it when I see it)...

And there truly will be no DH... I'd look for Pads to bring back PH extraordinaire Greg Garcia.  Maybe on a Minors deal with March opt out; till roster spot/s open.  Is there a rule about that?  If Pads Non tendered GG & he doesn't get better elsewhere, is there any reason we can't bring him back at say 850-900K?  Garcia would definitely pick SD over anywhere else.

He would get the 4th bench spot, and likely get used almost exclusively as a PH.  That would leave Mateo & O'Grady competing for the last bench/5th OF roster spot barring any other additions.

Quote from 3fingersplit on February 2, 2021, 8:55 am

Fenn

The whole "Health and Safety" about opening outdoor dining and hair salons is about one thing only....This Governor trying to save his job and fight off a recall as his "Shutdown" has not done a damn thing but ruin peoples lives and screw with kids and lack of school that has caused so much damage.......Other pro sports have figured out fans in attendance and I'm sure baseball and California will to.

Owners do care about their players.....they have to because if players get sick or even die the owners take a loss and owners ALWAYS use "ROI" when considering any player from signing one to releasing one and everything in between.

We all want fans at games....The owners do for sure, the players do because they thrive off of fans and the fans do because we all have our favorites and NOTHING beats going to the ballpark and watching a game.....catching a game on TV is great but doesn't begin to come close to being there

Fenn....you post a lot and for the most part I agree with a lot of what you say but when you are wrong...you are wrong and your pick pocket analogy is flat out wrong and is an insult not only to fans and players but to "pick-pockets" everywhere

Quote from Brian Connelly on February 2, 2021, 9:36 am

3finger,   These are "big boys" with big $ at stake that is ultimately at the end of the day at the "heart" (irony intended) of the negotiations.

I'm not saying all the owners are *@($*# who don't care about the players.  Truly wanting everyone safer & looking at bottom line aren't mutually exclusive.  But if they (and frankly, the MLBPA whose JOB is to be focused on player welfare) REALLY felt so strongly about player safety, either side should/could have put this out there much earlier.  So close to ST with players physically moving to/renting ST housing, the effect on remaining FA, P's ramping up throwing programs etc, understandably rubs many players the wrong way.

If you just look at it from a negotiation standpoint, owners offered MLBPA:  162 games pay for 154 games (IF everything goes perfectly all season long & no games are cancelled) & delay season start a month FOR:

• DH in NL (a player leverage point; even though they esp rank & file DO want it)
• Expanded playoffs

From a $ standpoint, the owners win huge on 1) delaying the season & eliminating the lowest attendance "lose $ per game" dates.  And 2) The expanded playoffs; make huge $ in 2021 by doing so AND take away players' biggest leverage for next CBA negotiation

The players get the DH which directly benefits Nelson Cruz, Marcell Ozuna, and maybe some lesser guys like Mitch Moreland.  Arguably this "costs" owners $... but it's very limited in the big picture, AND it takes DH away as negotiation leverage next CBA.  DH will be in NL in 2022, it's just what players will "get" for it that is TBD.  The players get full pay for 8 less games, but were supposedly worried this arrangement gave Manfred more freedom to cancel games which would actually reduce their pay.  Only thing players were TRULY getting was delaying season a month.  Undeniably makes everyone safer, but it wasn't enough for MLBPA to "protect their own" and agree....  because they took too big of a long term $/ negotiang leverage hit.

Owners quickly then said:  "would have delayed season/154 games WITHOUT expanded playoffs and DH in NL"... proving that owners STILL "win" $-wise by delaying the season & jsut cutting the 4 worst attended / $ losing home games/team.

I agree overall with MLBPA decision to just move ahead... but both sides are being hypocrites.

Quote from Brian Connelly on February 2, 2021, 9:44 am

I am extremely curious to see what the guys who opted out last season do...

By ANY rational measure, even with vaccinations out & immunity building everywhere by the day, the risk of an unvaccinated MLB player getting Covid now vs. last Summer is at least 5x higher.  Are the guys who gave up their prorated salaries which were really only 37% of 1 year pay REALLY going to be willing to take that same stand for 100% of pay in the face of higher risk...

We'll see.  I doubt it.

A good solution might be allowing opt out until vaccinated, but man would that open up a can of ethical worms... I'm going to go out on a cynical limb and hazard a "guess" that some 8-figure millionaire pro athletes "may have" found their way to a vaccination already...

Quote from fenn68 on February 2, 2021, 10:06 am

Negotiations are always ugly ... and no more so that the history between the owners and union.

I am surprised that the union did not make a counter offer to delay the season but without the other “add ons” and some protection to salaries if circumstances required a further adjustment to the agreed plan. That could clearly be pushed as “health and safety” on a stand alone basis which would benefit the union. Let the owners turn that down rather than get away with the comment they would have agreed if it were proposed. So, why don’t the owners just propose that (and why have they not sooner)?

Frankly, I would be fascinated it the owners did come back with a “clean” delay proposal that protected full salaries ... how the Union would react and what justification they would try to use to reject it. I can see arguments but straining to see how they would override health and safety for all during COVID. Not sure that the lost deposits on ST housing and having to adjust the player prep schedule is really that compelling.

I believe the rejected proposal delayed to about May 1 (maybe 28+/- games) ... drop 8 games from the season ... and one week at the end (maybe preserving 7 of those games) ... so 13 games +/- would have to be covered during the season (May - Sep) resulting in 2-3 double headers (or a few less off days) each month. Saw nothing about expanding the rosters. That might be issue for the Union but if no expanded playoffs ... could just add another week in OCT to relieve the pressure.

A lot of room for both sides to take the “high ground” of health and safety in a proposal. The one real potential roadblock is that the MLBPA sees no issue in playing the normal schedule and would reject any proposal .. that is a very real possibility.

 

Quote from Brian Connelly on February 2, 2021, 10:45 am

In the players' defense... ANY compression of a near normal length season IS a health risk to especially P's.

2-3 Doubleheaders/month &/or less days off feels like too much to ask of players over a full 5-6 month season.

But, Fenn you're right:  There was (is??) room for compromise here.   How about:

2 week delay to ST & season, same 154 games, but clearly define in advance makeup dates/doubleheader limitations over the now "open 2 weeks".... i.e. team can't play 9 games in 7 days,  more than "x" games/row, etc.

• This would save owners the same 4 "worst" home games, although moving the 1st games up 2 weeks for all would probably hurt owners a little.
• Likelihood is some/many games do get rescheduled, etc, throughout season, but players at WAY less risk of losing games/$ altogether by building in flexibility.
• POSSIBLE --depending how "built in" open dates are scheduled-- to stick to a "closer to normal " playoffs schedule.  Particularly since not expanding the playoffs.  The networks would like this.

Quote from fenn68 on February 2, 2021, 11:54 am

A lot of delay options ... so should be able to land on something.

IF COVID today is the major issue and therefore ST starting in 2 weeks and running until the end of March may be the most critical timeframe .... how about:

1. Delay the start of ST for 5 weeks until the last week of March

2. Reduce ST from 6 weeks to 4 weeks (ML player whine that it is too long anyway)

3. Start the ML season the last week in April (losing 3 weeks of April games ... 19-20 games)

4. Extend the season one week adding back 7 games (net down 12-13 games)

5. Reduce the schedule to 154 games as proposed (net down 4-5 games) either made up over the 5 months (May-Sep) or reduce the schedule another 4 games to 148 games.

6. Players still get full salary and  “normal” scheduling for May-Sept. Owners vacate April games without fans to in-season / Oct games with fans creating the financial offset for the salaries. Everyone benefits by not having to go to ST in mid-Feb and having 5 more weeks to improve the COVID situation in AZ.