Quote from Alex Tamayo on September 19, 2021, 1:47 am

Since Preller got ejected to protect Tatis from being so (because of his inmature reaction), probably the decision of going to the bullpen was Skipp's, I did think Darvish was going back for the 8th on a very shorts leash, but didnt have a problem with Pagán (who else do we have to fullfill the role?), but after the lead off double and Out number one I really thought of a 4 out save for Melancon, then heard that nobody was warming up, and justo hoped for the Best

Quote from WindsorUK on September 19, 2021, 5:08 am

Guys here suggested that it's not even Tingler who makes ANY gametime decisions- they reckon every move( lineup, position, pinch hit, shift, etc.) is driven by someone higher up( Preller, Analytics?).

If that's the case, we definitely require a tear down from wherever that comes from.

Even listening to pressers, Tingler provides nothing- no emotion, no reasoning, no teaching opportunities( unless you call lashing out at Tatis for hitting a grand slam when you're up big!).

I understand he's Preller's hand chosen prodigy, but so was Andy Green! I say enough is enough. Other than getting Fowler/ Siedler to spend more, until we win at least our division, Preller/ Tingler is more of the same ol', same ol'.

Time to move on.

Quote from fenn68 on September 19, 2021, 5:59 am

Odds are getting strong that Tingler will be canned at season end … he is part of the problem but I am in the camp that this is a “team effort” with the analytics folks, the coaches, and Preller. Most likely that this group was assembled with individuals with a similar philosophy. I really doubt Tingler is free (if he even wants to) to ignore the input from others … line-up design, innings limits, etc. are all likely based on a lot of input from others. Sure he has some “in-game” decisions but likely those are contained in a framework established pre-game.

So, when Tingler gets the boot … pretty sure the new manager will not be free to change the current team philosophy … and the real question may be if Preller and the front office are changing their view of how to create a game / season strategy.

Quote from fenn68 on September 19, 2021, 6:24 am

Glad to see Darvish back on top form. I was beginning to be concerned about his future success since the Padres have him for two more seasons and a hefty price.

The bullpen on the other hand is burned out (I suggested that a couple of weeks ago and that view stands). Padres pen has logged the most innings in MLB and they are not machines. They have moved from the best pen early in the season to near the worst down the stretch.

Looks as though relying on the pen so much early to save the SP for a strong finish did not work. Second half we have seen Snell, Darvish, Paddack, Lamet all injured at points and not going deep into games. Only Musgrove is delivering as expected.

I will be interesting to see if the 2022 usage of SP/RP changes with (hopefully) healthy Musgrove, Darvish, Snell, Lamet, Clevinger, Paddack … all veteran pitchers.

Quote from WindsorUK on September 19, 2021, 6:41 am

If our guy in the dugout isn't allowed to make " baseball" decisions, maybe our group becomes the first organization to not hire a manager?

This group is obviously not interested in anyone who has MLB experience( either as player or manager). Maybe just have everything preprogrammed into an algorithim for every series, comparing every possible match up, in the field, and at the plate? That way, THEY( whoever THEY is!) know EVERY move that is made, is done to the highest probability of a successful outcome?

Analytics obviously have their place( thank you Billy Beane and Bill James) but I'd like to see someone in charge that the players can look to for guidance, someone who's been there before, someone they can respect( I still think Tingler lost this group last year after the Tatis debacle).

I'm just so frustrated. I've questioned our approach from day 1. Not saying I was right but certainly wasn't wrong: whatever we're doing isn't working. Can't change (all) the players, time to change management.

Quote from fenn68 on September 19, 2021, 7:50 am

Although I appreciate the analytics ... they seem to be way over relied upon to run the game on the field without regard to the human variability of players who, in the moment, don't follow their histories documented in a computer. Would add that heavy use of some analytics actually change the profile of the players ... when does shouldn't go 3 times through the order translate into not pitching past 5+ innings which evolves to changing pitch mix which ends up with pitchers not able to go deep (or know how to pitch to go deep effectively).

I am old school (fear that is never coming back) where line-ups are more stable and SP are developed with multiple effective pitches and a plan to use them to work deep into games.

Bottom line players are human and the analytics just don't consider that. "Most" players prefer some stability in their roles to maximize their performance ... whether it is in/out of the line-up; field position, or batting order position ... it is (in my view) the rare player that can reach peak performance under those variable conditions.

At some level all 30 teams have fallen down the same rabbit hole ... not just the Padres. Some are having more success and some less. Can any team clime out .... not if all the MLB players and the minors are being handled under this approach ... becomes ingrained in the DNA of baseball.

Quote from WindsorUK on September 19, 2021, 11:23 am

"I am old school (fear that is never coming back) where line-ups are more stable and SP are developed with multiple effective pitches and a plan to use them to work deep into games"

Couldn't have said it better, Fenn.

Quote from MrPadre19 on September 19, 2021, 2:33 pm

Worst fears realized.

No playoffs and no MVP for young Fernando……..again.

 

 

Quote from WindsorUK on September 19, 2021, 2:46 pm

FTJr. too busy trying to learn new positions to actually just play.