Quote from fenn68 on November 9, 2019, 10:33 am

Agree that Torrens deserves a higher evaluation that most are giving him. In a world in short supply of quality catchers ... Torrens looks to be able to combine some offense with some defense ... pretty valuable commodity.

Personally I could see him as the back-up to Mejia sooner than later making both Allen and Hedges trade bait.

Not big on 3 catchers ... for a RHH alternative to Hosmer in some games Myers will still be around but if not good chance France is there to handle that role. Both at least have experience at 1B and should be substantially better defensively than Mejia or Allen or Torrens. Add that both Allen and Torrens need AB as developing players ... not going to get that a #3 catcher and maybe a sometimes 1B/OF.

Probably better off trying to spot Mejia at 1B when Hosmer needs to be out of the line-up (if there is not a better alternative) ... go with Hedges (or whoever is the 2nd catcher) ... then if an injury slide Mejia back behind the plate and bring in Hosmer to 1B. Allows for a more versatile bench of players that can cover multiple INF or OF slots if there is a need for strategic double switches ... PR ... PH .... injuries in other positions.

Quote from fenn68 on November 9, 2019, 10:46 am

Quote from Henry Silvestre on November 9, 2019, 5:39 am

Quote from fenn68 on November 9, 2019, 4:52 am

Probably that is how it will end up.

Since after all this ML time ... don’t think he can be more than his .201 ML career BA ... some people just can’t handle ML pitching. Combine that with it being a hard in 2020 to get sufficient offensive improvement in 4 of the 7 other positions (or even in the other 3) to offset his offensive liability. Improvement yes ... but enough to carry one of the worst offensive teams up to contention quality ... no.

Looking at it from the other direction .... IF Hedges is that valuable as a defensive specialist ... what could he fetch from a contender with a strong offense? Would the value of the return piece (if it fit a Padre need) be more impactful for the 2020 Padres? Future Padres?

NATS come to mind ... ASTROS come to mind ... RANGERS come to mind (after they make the big FA signings) ... basically a lot of teams need catchers and after Grandal as a FA ... pickings are slim. Supply and demand might yield an “over pay” for Hedges IF someone views his defense as that desirable.

Is Hedges more valuable as a trade chip (low cost, 3 control years, elite defense) than a player for the 2020 Padres?

 

Wonder if Mazara for Hedges straight up os too little or too much??

Wonder if Tucker for Hedges is too little too much?

I mean if Hedges framing = 1/2 run per game vs most C.. Thats like Hedges scoring or driving in 60 runs on offense (+ his terrible #s) make him well quite valuable.... Remember Ozzie was a bad hitter for a long time until he became a solid one.. And Hedges just needs to be his 2018 .711 Hell if league avg is .666 he just needs to be .650 OPS C with his D that is awesome category .. But .568 or whatever 2019 was is no bueno

Houston wouldn’t do Tucker for Hedges ... may not go with Tucker for almost any offer they get for him.

Mazara?

Keep in mind Ozzie went to STL and fast artificial turf on a go-go CARDS team ... a ton of ground balls started to shoot through the INF for him.

Actually the METS crossed my mind given the elite SP staff. Hedges in a package including Margot might start getting close to the price tag for Conforto. Add Lauer for the 5th SP they seek.

Hard to read how other teams value Hedges AS A TRADE TARGET ... may love his defense but when it comes down to giving up something to get that (and zero offense) ...are they less enthusiastic.

Quote from MrPadre19 on November 9, 2019, 11:08 am

I was talking about when you remove Mejia late in the game and insert Hedges for Defense.

In this case if you move Mejia to 1b you have to remove Hosmer.

I guess you could put someone else at 1b if you had to move Mejia back to Catcher but it wouldn’t be Hosmer.

 

Quote from fenn68 on November 9, 2019, 11:29 am

Quote from David Nevin on November 9, 2019, 11:08 am

I was talking about when you remove Mejia late in the game and insert Hedges for Defense.

In this case if you move Mejia to 1b you have to remove Hosmer.

I guess you could put someone else at 1b if you had to move Mejia back to Catcher but it wouldn’t be Hosmer.

 

IF I went with the defensive replacement at C with Hedges ... just would take Mejia out of the game and accept the risk (low that it is) Hedges would get an injury that takes him out. In the ultimate emergency ... for now ... both Renfroe and Myers are former catchers could go to catcher. Flip that and in a critical late inning situation with Hedges coming to bat ... PH Mejia and insert him to catch.

Maybe 3 catchers work if #1 Mejia (60%), #2 Allen or Torrens (40%), and #3 Hedges (defensive replacement 0-100%). Sort of maximizes his defensive value and eliminates the offensive liability. Would guess Hedges would not take kindly to that usage.

Quote from JasonE135 on November 9, 2019, 12:59 pm

Quote from fenn68 on November 9, 2019, 10:46 am

Quote from Henry Silvestre on November 9, 2019, 5:39 am

Quote from fenn68 on November 9, 2019, 4:52 am

Probably that is how it will end up.

Since after all this ML time ... don’t think he can be more than his .201 ML career BA ... some people just can’t handle ML pitching. Combine that with it being a hard in 2020 to get sufficient offensive improvement in 4 of the 7 other positions (or even in the other 3) to offset his offensive liability. Improvement yes ... but enough to carry one of the worst offensive teams up to contention quality ... no.

Looking at it from the other direction .... IF Hedges is that valuable as a defensive specialist ... what could he fetch from a contender with a strong offense? Would the value of the return piece (if it fit a Padre need) be more impactful for the 2020 Padres? Future Padres?

NATS come to mind ... ASTROS come to mind ... RANGERS come to mind (after they make the big FA signings) ... basically a lot of teams need catchers and after Grandal as a FA ... pickings are slim. Supply and demand might yield an “over pay” for Hedges IF someone views his defense as that desirable.

Is Hedges more valuable as a trade chip (low cost, 3 control years, elite defense) than a player for the 2020 Padres?

 

Wonder if Mazara for Hedges straight up os too little or too much??

Wonder if Tucker for Hedges is too little too much?

I mean if Hedges framing = 1/2 run per game vs most C.. Thats like Hedges scoring or driving in 60 runs on offense (+ his terrible #s) make him well quite valuable.... Remember Ozzie was a bad hitter for a long time until he became a solid one.. And Hedges just needs to be his 2018 .711 Hell if league avg is .666 he just needs to be .650 OPS C with his D that is awesome category .. But .568 or whatever 2019 was is no bueno

Houston wouldn’t do Tucker for Hedges ... may not go with Tucker for almost any offer they get for him.

Mazara?

Keep in mind Ozzie went to STL and fast artificial turf on a go-go CARDS team ... a ton of ground balls started to shoot through the INF for him.

Actually the METS crossed my mind given the elite SP staff. Hedges in a package including Margot might start getting close to the price tag for Conforto. Add Lauer for the 5th SP they seek.

Hard to read how other teams value Hedges AS A TRADE TARGET ... may love his defense but when it comes down to giving up something to get that (and zero offense) ...are they less enthusiastic.

We might as well make that offer to the Mets: Margot, Lauer, and any catcher in our system not named Mejia or Campusano in exchange for Conforto. They need a catcher, cf and a #5 starter and they have an overabundance of corner of. Their fans believe they can get a star in a trade for him but their GM might be more realistic. This would fill a lot of their team needs and give us exactly what we need. It would, however, leave a huge defensive hole in CF until Trammell gets there. I seriously doubt that they would actually do it but we may as well make the offer. We could possibly work something out. Comforto is a player that they have been thinking about moving.

As for Tucker, he is being counted on to be a part of Houston's future. There is no way they are going to trade him.

Quote from BoosterSD on November 9, 2019, 1:23 pm

If we had to give up Mejia (and I dont think we do, he is more similar to Ramos being offense first) to get Conforto. And then we got both Dickerson and Akiyama, as well. Do you think the line up would be strong enough that we could then live with a lack of offense from Hedges?

Quote from JasonE135 on November 9, 2019, 2:37 pm

Quote from BoosterSD on November 9, 2019, 1:23 pm

If we had to give up Mejia (and I dont think we do, he is more similar to Ramos being offense first) to get Conforto. And then we got both Dickerson and Akiyama, as well. Do you think the line up would be strong enough that we could then live with a lack of offense from Hedges?

Akiyama is an unknown. Nobody can know what he will bring.

Conforto: .253/.353/834 Avg.27HR

Dickerson: .286/.328/.823 Avg.23HR

Hedges: .201/.257/.617 Avg.23HR

Or

Myers: .251/.327/.763 Avg.25HR

Mejia: ..244/.300/.714Avg.20HR

These are their average years assuming over 500AB. Tell me that the first one does not look markedly better than the second one, even with Hedges and even assuming(as I do) that Mejia's numbers will get better. Either way, we would still have Renfroe for RF whose numbers are .235/.294/.788, but he averages over 35HR per 600AB. After those trades/signings I would assume his numbers will be much better considering he will only be batting against LH pitchers. Besides which, our defense in the OF should be close to equal. Sure it would definitely be a step down in CF, but Dickerson is a former Gold Glover and should be an improvement over Myers. Obviously the catching defense and pitch framing/game calling will be absolute top of the line with Hedges as opposed to average with Mejia. Their arms are a push.

So yes, our offense would be much better and our defense equal to or better than it is currently. I think that could definitely be a playoff roster.

Quote from BoosterSD on November 9, 2019, 2:56 pm

I would think that if you could get Conforto, Dickerson, and Akiyama, along with Renfroe and Margot/Gettys you could have a really balanced OF.

Dickerson is the most balanced bat versus L/R splits, so he plays the bulk of LF everyday, exception of the elite LHSP. Akiyama hopefully provides the RHP bat that we need to balance Margot/Gettys, which ever NYM doesnt choose for the Conforto trade. Margot has yet to be anything to special with the bat, and Gettys splits in AAA were very good v LHP, and his defense has never really been questioned. So IMO Margot adn Gettys are a wash at this time, with Gettys being the cheaper option. Conforto/Renfroe compile an exceptional platoon in RF.

Quote from Commie on November 9, 2019, 4:23 pm

If Corey Dickerson got a dollar for every time his name is mentioned here he could sit out next year.

Kiley McDaniel referred to Akiyama as 4th OF recently.

If they deal Hedges they must acquire a veteran to split time with Mejia. No chance they win with Mejia and Allen/Torrens. Maybe that's three starting quality C by 2022, but lack of xp is fatal at that position. Back to Chirinos for me.