Quote from MrPadre19 on January 10, 2020, 3:13 am

http://www.milb.com/player/index.jsp?sid=milb&player_id=668227#/career/R/hitting/2019/ALL

I think they like this guy more than you do.

According to this he was their 9th rated prospect.

https://www.prospectslive.com/lists/2019/12/28/cardinals-2020-top-30-prospects

 

He had a .422 OBP in AA last year than a .435 in AAA.

As smart as the TB brain trust is I think we would be foolish to under rate how much they wanted this guy as the 2nd piece.

 

Quote from Henry Silvestre on January 10, 2020, 4:43 am

This dude Arizo... Played for Los Toros in Tijuana Mexico a few yrs back .. Looked like a man amongst boys to the naked eye (I saw him there ) and thought wonder if this guy will get a chance at the MLB.. Well here we are and here he is.. Yeah that approach at the plate looks amazing.. Still a Liberatore type spec should net you a lot better.. Like Benintendi type or as a center piece to a Bryant /Clevinger/ Contreras/or Lindor 2+ comtrolled guys .. Don't really get this trade (from Rays perspective) I mean we could have given them. Naylor + Franchy for Liberatore (which is very similar) or would we have?

Quote from fenn68 on January 10, 2020, 5:41 am

Both TB and STL have pretty good histories in making good deals ... so I suspect this makes sense to both teams given the "parts" are very different plus both are "contenders" right now.

The only ML component is Martinez .. good hitter but 1B/DH (with Goldschmidt no place in STL) ... 31 (2 years control) ... STL was motivated to move him. TB must see him in that role.

Then Arozarena is an interesting upside gamble ... already 24 but coming off a good 2019 and potentially that CF insurance / upgrade offensively that they seek. Has not been rated as a top prospect ... but does go to a need.

Also, TB upgrades its 2020 draft about 30 slots moving from a Comp B to Comp A.

So, TB gets some immediate help ... good if they think they can make the WC at a minimum and make the run in the playoffs.

=====

STL looks to the future by moving Martinez (who they wanted to move to clear space) and Arozarena who was bypassed by higher rated prospects in the OF near term.

They get Libertore ... 20 in low A (3 years out?) but ranked #41 and high ceiling ... a rookie ball catcher (unknown) .. and dropped those 30 slots in the draft.

So, STL gives up nothing that would help them in 2020 (based on their depth charts) for the future. Also, I looks as though STL is a finalist to resign Ozuna who will replace Martinez's bat.

======

Interesting deal where TB gets short term help to contend and STL gets high upside prospects (with high risk of development) and at least 3 years out.

Quote from MrPadre19 on January 10, 2020, 6:35 am

I would not question TB for their decision until they prove to make some bonehead moves.I think they believe Arozarena is ready for the ML now.So IMO they add "two" ML pieces for a guy still 2-3 years away plus move up in the draft.I'm thinking Arozarena will be like Arraez in Min .A hitter.

Plus they know Liberatore better than we do.

 

Quote from Henry Silvestre on January 10, 2020, 6:48 am

Quote from MrPadre19 on January 10, 2020, 6:35 am

I would not question TB for their decision until they prove to make some bonehead moves.I think they believe Arozarena is ready for the ML now.So IMO they add "two" ML pieces for a guy still 2-3 years away plus move up in the draft.I'm thinking Arozarena will be like Arraez in Min .A hitter.

Plus they know Liberatore better than we do.

 

Bonehead as in like trading Trea Turner for Steve Souza Jr ?..

Quote from Brian Connelly on January 10, 2020, 8:41 am

Quote from MrPadre19 on January 10, 2020, 6:35 am

I would not question TB for their decision until they prove to make some bonehead moves.I think they believe Arozarena is ready for the ML now.So IMO they add "two" ML pieces for a guy still 2-3 years away plus move up in the draft.I'm thinking Arozarena will be like Arraez in Min .A hitter.

Plus they know Liberatore better than we do.

 

Agree.  Think Rays know what they're doing.  2 MLB role players + the move up in draft is huge & in essence makes the deal a 3 for 1.  Cards are going to wind up bringing Ozuna back, so dealing from strength/excess for a top 50 prospect.

Reality is that even top 50 MLB guys years from MLB simply have limits on their value.   More directly reflects on our more distant prospects like Weathers & Arias than on (reading between the lines) everyone presuming this reflects directly on Patino's value.  The 10+ spots higher on the prospect list Patino is > Liberatore are significant difference (unlike say #80  vs #90), but the big difference is Patino's proximity to MLB readiness.

 

Quote from sportwarrior on January 10, 2020, 8:57 am

Quote from MrPadre19 on January 9, 2020, 3:59 pm

Quote from sportwarrior on January 9, 2020, 3:01 pm

Jose Martinez won't be nearly enough. A 30 year old guy coming off a subpar season at the plate with zero glove could be a part of the trade, but the balance will be made up elsewhere. My guess is Tyler O'Neill plus another guy or two.

That said, I still scratch my head over how we ended up drafting Ryan Weathers over Matt Libertore.

Too soon to say that was a mistake.

What makes you say he’s automatically better than Weathers?

 

Well I didn't say it was a mistake. Both were high schoolers with similar floors when drafted, and both could end up being valuable major leaguers. I think Libertore's ceiling is/was universally considered higher, however. He has the better velocity, the better stuff, the physicality (6'5/200) that Weathers does not. Weathers is one of those "bad body" athletes (6'1/230) who doesn't blow anyone away and gets by on solid stuff + pitchability, which may have been the only attribute he had that was better than Libertore (aside from signability, of course). I just would rather have had the guy with better stuff.

Quote from MrPadre19 on January 10, 2020, 9:25 am

There's also something to be said,especially for pitchers,about pedigree and the cerebral part of their game...their "makeup" if you will.This may have played a part in their decision to take Weathers over Liberatore.

We'll see I guess in a couple years but it's not a great sign for Liberatore that his drafting team is trading him already.Esp. when most think they didn't get enough in return.

I think this move for TB is simply a move to get major league ready outfielders for a pitcher still a couple years away.

They probably feel they have the arms in the system but need the bats "now."

May be that simple.

 

 

 

Quote from MrPadre19 on January 10, 2020, 9:28 am

Quote from sportwarrior on January 10, 2020, 8:57 am

Quote from MrPadre19 on January 9, 2020, 3:59 pm

Quote from sportwarrior on January 9, 2020, 3:01 pm

Jose Martinez won't be nearly enough. A 30 year old guy coming off a subpar season at the plate with zero glove could be a part of the trade, but the balance will be made up elsewhere. My guess is Tyler O'Neill plus another guy or two.

That said, I still scratch my head over how we ended up drafting Ryan Weathers over Matt Libertore.

Too soon to say that was a mistake.

What makes you say he’s automatically better than Weathers?

 

Well I didn't say it was a mistake. Both were high schoolers with similar floors when drafted, and both could end up being valuable major leaguers. I think Libertore's ceiling is/was universally considered higher, however. He has the better velocity, the better stuff, the physicality (6'5/200) that Weathers does not. Weathers is one of those "bad body" athletes (6'1/230) who doesn't blow anyone away and gets by on solid stuff + pitchability, which may have been the only attribute he had that was better than Libertore (aside from signability, of course). I just would rather have had the guy with better stuff.

Then maybe you need to change your shampoo?...:)