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Off Season Moves and discussion
#21 · October 5, 2021, 5:45 pm
Most of the reporting is that Preller is secure and ALL the coming moves are solely on him.
Guessing Preller is working on more than just the fate of Tingler … also probably a lot of discussion on the coaches (more likely to be gone) and what did not work between them and the players … more specifically which players became a problem.
Preller has a good relationship with Tingler so even IF he removes Tingler as manager he may reassign him to a role with the organization and probably values his input one way or the other.
I am at 50/50 on firing since the a lot of talk focused on the coaches basically NOT taking input from the analytical guys and not working the players to implement the analytics. Think Preller and Tingler are on the same page … coaches apparently were not and actually pushed back (think the termination of Rothchild).
There is a big difference a coach (employee) pushing back and giving feedback and that person saying take you direction and shove it.
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Also, a growing feeling that some players (unknown who) were basically saying they want it there way and will not heed any other input … creating a negative environment.
2021 (Tingler) ended the same as 2019 (Green) …. So better be looking at beyond the manager and maybe the crossover players (Machado, Hosmer) and the front office pieces other than Preller … not some of the moves already.
#22 · October 6, 2021, 7:21 am
Anyone care to venture a guess at what Hunter Renfroe gets offered this off season?
30 HR's, 100 RBI, 30 2B's, 90 R, league leading 16 OF assists AND an OBP of .315?
Trading him made sense at the time( and Cronenworth has been a STUD!) but how would people feel about bringing him back? Even at his 2019 numbers he was more productive than Pham has been over the past 2 years combined. We need a LF( and RF should Myers get moved)
If we're not going to get a lot of run production out of 1B( considered a run production position by most), we'll need to get it from somewhere else?
#23 · October 6, 2021, 8:13 am
Renfroe (29)
2019 (SD): 216/289/489
2020 (TB): 156/252/393 … RELEASED
2021 (BOS): 259/315/501 …. Career year
Any team has to make the call whether 2021 is an aberration (or the product of the Boston coaching) vs Renfroe developing to a new higher level.
Keeping in mind that Renfroe has a choice … may lean heavily returning to BOSTON (if they make him an offer) … place of his success and a playoff team. May not have that same warm feeling about SD.
No idea on what he will eventually sign for … hard to evaluate teams view of ‘one year wonders”. Probably more than the Padres would be willing to pay.
#24 · October 6, 2021, 8:56 am
Quote from WindsorUK on October 6, 2021, 7:21 amAnyone care to venture a guess at what Hunter Renfroe gets offered this off season?
30 HR's, 100 RBI, 30 2B's, 90 R, league leading 16 OF assists AND an OBP of .315?
Trading him made sense at the time( and Cronenworth has been a STUD!) but how would people feel about bringing him back? Even at his 2019 numbers he was more productive than Pham has been over the past 2 years combined. We need a LF( and RF should Myers get moved)
If we're not going to get a lot of run production out of 1B( considered a run production position by most), we'll need to get it from somewhere else?
I think I would (based on the dollars) rather chase signing either Avisail Garcia or Sterling Marte. Both will cost more dollars than Renfroe Im sure, but both have a longer, better track record as well.
Did read today that SD will look into signing FA RHSP Marcus Stroman. So maybe Seidler has deeper pockets than we think. And in the same notice, it mentioned that SD would not mind paying the CBT tax penalties for the right combo of players.
#25 · October 6, 2021, 9:24 am
What's the deal with Stroman? A few years back, a lot of guys here mentioned him as a player of interest. The past few years, not so much.
I definitely believe we need to bring in starters if for nothing more than organizational depth( Preller can't get caught out again!).
#26 · October 6, 2021, 9:42 am
First have to consider the source (Acee):
Veteran starting pitching will be a focus of the Padres’ offseason, and the team appears prepared to shop in the high end of the free agent market. Kevin Acee of The San Diego Union-Tribune writes that Marcus Stroman has been “mentioned” as part of the Padres’ “preliminary deliberations” about targets this winter.
I have zero faith in whatever is reported by Acee and he covered himself with "mentioned" and "preliminary deliberations" ... so almost everyone in MLB probably falls into that category.
I still can't accept that veteran starting pitching will be the focus considering NO LF, NO DH and marginally productive Myers / Hosmer (who they may be trying to deal to clear some payroll). Not convinced Tatis - Machado - Cronenworth can carry 6 unproductive bats in the line-up. Going to take a lot of money gain a productive critical mass for the offense.
At age 30, and coming off some good seasons, will command at least a 5 year deal with an AAV somewhere in the $20-30MM range. (also keep in the back of your minds that Musgrove is a FA after next season and likely will be asking something similar if he repeats in 2021).
#27 · October 6, 2021, 9:50 am
IF they added Stroman to Darvish, Snell, Musgrove, Paddack, Clevinger, Lamet, Weathers, Gore, Martinez .... 10 arms for the 5 SP slots plus 5 for "insurance" .... that is a lot.
Would think if they see Stroman as upper rotation (he is) ... Darvish / Snell / Lamet are controlled through 2023 ... and if they plan to extend Musgrove ... may not need the all of the other depth ... could they be on the block? Gore and Weathers should be good trade bait.
#28 · October 6, 2021, 11:44 am
Quote from fenn68 on October 6, 2021, 9:50 amIF they added Stroman to Darvish, Snell, Musgrove, Paddack, Clevinger, Lamet, Weathers, Gore, Martinez .... 10 arms for the 5 SP slots plus 5 for "insurance" .... that is a lot.
Would think if they see Stroman as upper rotation (he is) ... Darvish / Snell / Lamet are controlled through 2023 ... and if they plan to extend Musgrove ... may not need the all of the other depth ... could they be on the block? Gore and Weathers should be good trade bait.
Question: you've got Martinez on the list ... but not Avila ... they seem equivalent at this point to me ... thoughts?
And ... is the prognosis for Lamet such that we can/should expect him to be in the 2022 rotation? Or more likely a (good) bullpen piece?
#29 · October 6, 2021, 12:04 pm
Quote from fenn68 on October 6, 2021, 9:42 am
I still can't accept that veteran starting pitching will be the focus considering NO LF, NO DH and marginally productive Myers / Hosmer (who they may be trying to deal to clear some payroll). Not convinced Tatis - Machado - Cronenworth can carry 6 unproductive bats in the line-up. Going to take a lot of money gain a productive critical mass for the offense.
They way I look at Hosmer, we are the hook for $60M for the next 4 years, because I dont think there is a chance that anyone would offer him more than $13M a year as a 33 year old mid level 1B bat at best. $20M of that is next season, so if you simply take the hit and ship him, along with a mid level prospect, and $30M I think you could find an young rebuilding team that could use his veteran clubhouse presence, which I think he is really good at. That new team would have Hosmer then at $7.5M a season, and that is very reasonable for him.
Yes, it would be a $30M hit, but only $10M over 2022 season alone, then you could either put Crone at 1B, Frazier at 2B, Tatis at SS, and Machdo at 3B. That is an all star INF at every position with Profar and Kim for back up, and Abrams probably just around the corner.
Your OF would be Myers in LF, Grisham in CF, and then you should have money to get either Garcia or Marte in FA. Bring Marisnick back as a back up CFer, and you should be really solid.
#30 · October 6, 2021, 12:06 pm
Quote from fenn68 on October 6, 2021, 9:50 amIF they added Stroman to Darvish, Snell, Musgrove, Paddack, Clevinger, Lamet, Weathers, Gore, Martinez .... 10 arms for the 5 SP slots plus 5 for "insurance" .... that is a lot.
Would think if they see Stroman as upper rotation (he is) ... Darvish / Snell / Lamet are controlled through 2023 ... and if they plan to extend Musgrove ... may not need the all of the other depth ... could they be on the block? Gore and Weathers should be good trade bait.
IF they have the money to add Stroman, then IMO, some combo of Paddack, Gore, and Weathers becomes trade bait for the young stud OF/1B we need.