Quote from fenn68 on August 10, 2021, 12:48 pm

If you are thinking about a move to the OF being injury prevention related … just the wrong debate.

Plus all local reports suggest that Tatis is VERY comfortable with a move to the OF … just as long as he plays.

I go back to my idea that getting Tatis - Cronenworth - Frazier in the line-up at the expense of Pham / Myers to the bench makes both the offense and defense better NOW.

Pham is ice cold for the last month … Myers is just lukewarm … Frazier is a .300+ hitter. Then defensively Tatis is NOT a good SS NOW (spectacular yes but not as elite as hyped) … Cronenworth can do the job as well (or better) and Frazier if fine at 2B.

Putting as needed Tatis in the OF (sounding like RF) should not be a major challenge for him given his athletic skills (not as though Myers is a gold glove candidate). Pham / Myers share LF with Myers doing some 1B vs LHP.

So, put the injury concerns away, and focus on the move making the offense and defense better NOW in a pennant run.

Quote from fenn68 on August 10, 2021, 1:53 pm

Quote from Randy Manese on August 10, 2021, 12:00 pm

Certainly something to think about for 2022, but my guess is that Tatis will have his surgery in the off-season and prepare for an eventual return to shortstop.  He's always been an infielder, primarily ss, throughout his baseball life and thrives on being in on the action while playing next to Manny.  I think that is his mindset (although I believe he would go to the OF if he had to) and I believe the organization still sees him as their shortstop for the next 5-6 years.

In looking to the next year or two, we'll have potentially two vacancies in the OF.  I can see Abrams and Hassell out there or, more likely, we trade for an OF prospect to get some power into the system.  If we go with Abrams and Hassell then the team becomes more speed and OBP but we'll need the pitching to keep us in most games.  I think that's the reason Preller was after Gallo and I certainly concur with the alleged non-trade rumor of Hosmer and Hassell for a rental of Rizzo since that would have narrowed our options despite a respite from Hosmer's contract.  Trade of Rizzo to the Cubs for Cashner was a huge mistake (preferring to keep Yonder Alonso as their 1b man of the future) and I'm glad we didn't double-down and make another one.  That prior trade was pre-Preller.  My guess is that we deal one of our SP, who is heading to FA at the deadline, for that OF.

I know Abrams to the OF has been tossed around since he was drafted ... but little evidence that Tatis is a better SS than Abrams (or visa versa) or who is the better OF. That is a TBD in 2022 likely.

Putting my money on a 2022 INF of Machado - Cronenworth - Frazier - Hosmer with Kim first bench. Abrams works at SS in AA/AAA and in 2023 (Frazier a FA) he goes to SS and Cronenworth back to 2B.

2022 OF of Myers - Tatis - Grisham. DH is a PTNL (but could be handled in part by Campusano) with it being a rotational spot. 2023 Myers out and hopefully Hassell in.

Money saved from Myers / Pham/ Frazier / Clevinger departing via FA will be directed to extending Musgrove starting in 2023 when he becomes a FA plus some "significant" Arb increases for Cronenworth / Grisham / Lamet / Nola / plus others along with Tatis' contract starting to jump up. Doubt they spend heavily on a hitter give their in-house options and target more strategically pitching with Darvish, Snell, and Lamet FA after 2023 and Clevinger gone ... as it stands 2024 SP is Paddack - Weathers - TBD -TBD - TBD ... in-house not stacked with "elite" SP prospects other than the struggling Gore.

Quote from padscharg on August 11, 2021, 10:25 am

Quote from MrPadre19 on August 10, 2021, 12:34 pm

Here's what I don't understand.

He hurt himself swinging and sliding...not paying shortstop.

Also,outfielders dive for balls also....and when they do they usually are running much faster so the impact has to be greater.

So how id this less strenuous on him?

Is it solely about "how many" times he will be involved in a play vs. being at SS?

Are they going to tell him just "don't dive" for a line drive when in the outfield........play everything on a hop?

I'm thinking that could backfire on us trying to win games down the stretch.

He has had at least 5 confirmed shoulder subluxations so far this season (including 2 in spring training).  Here is the breakdown:

1 - Sliding Headfirst into Homeplate (Spring - missed a few games)

1- Swinging (Regular Season - 1st IL stint)

1- Backhanding a play at short (Spring- missed a few games)

1- Diving for a ball at shortstop (Regular Season - missed a game)

1- Sliding into 3rd (Regular Season - Latest IL stint)

 

The argument that I have heard for the outfield, is that Shortstop is a reaction position where you dive in a split-second based on instinct.  Outfielders have a little longer to react and can make up for a lot with speed.  My bigger concern would be running into the wall and reaching up for balls.  No perfect solution, but getting him back and attempting to keep him healthy for as long as possible is the ultimate goal.

Quote from 3fingersplit on August 11, 2021, 11:23 am

You can't take the baseball out of Tatis and he will dive for balls in the outfield and yes he could hurt his shoulder diving or running into a wall or trying to reach over the wall but my bigger concern is having little to no experience....he is going to break his wrist....glove hand as he dives and rolls over it. Anybody that has ever played the position or coached the position knows that the posibility of that is much higher than playing infield......dislocated shoulder vs broken wrist.puts him in the same place......IL

 

Quote from fenn68 on August 11, 2021, 12:48 pm

Tatis ended the 2018 season in AA early fractured thumb on the basepaths as I recall.

Tatis was IL a couple of time in 2019 … not sure the specifics but one was the hamstring … had a back issue … and was there another shoulder issue

So, given his history of various injuries, not sure the Padres can keep him healthy at any position, probably not even DH.

SS avoids some potential injuries but adds injuries from more frequent diving for grounders, getting taken out at 2B by runners, pulled muscles from quick reaction starts, collisions on pop flys (see Pham). SS gets into a lot of plays every game … RF not so much.

Bottom line for me is that they can’t even minimize the odds of him getting injured … so play him were his play benefits the offense / defense the most and let the injures play themselves out.

Quote from Randy Manese on August 11, 2021, 2:26 pm

I totally agree that unless you shackled Tatis to a spot in the OF, he's going to be diving for balls in front of him, to the side of him, trying to go over the fence to bring back a HR and possibly running into other outfielders/infielders or the wall.  This will be done with much more speed and momentum than a quick twitch reaction at shortstop.  Jimenez, Robert and Ron Acuna are three examples of serious OF injuries this year.  Safest place on the field is probably 1b, but is that his future?  I agree with your bottom line that you play Tatis where his play benefits the team the most because there is risk almost anywhere on the field.

 

 

 

Quote from fenn68 on August 15, 2021, 4:28 pm

OK, Tatis is "special" ... returns from the IL with a double, 2 HR, and a clutch 2 RBI single and clearly energized he club.

It looks as though they will use him both in the INF and OF for the remainder of the season ... but I am changing my view for 2022 ... return him full time to SS even if he is not the elite SS we want. Padres' players (and the fans) need him in the center of action at SS for the energy he generates for the club. Saw shot of him in RF (did nothing wrong) but HE sure looked bored (although did not effect his bat).

I am sure the "stats" guys will just focus on analytics (I am usually one of those) ... but in this case Tatis at SS with the excitement he generates always in full view creates value to the rest of the team (makes other better) and clearly better for the fans (and it is important to keep the fans engaged and entertained).

DH will help keep Frazier's bat in the line-up with Tatis at SS / Cronenworth at 2B.

Quote from LynchMob on August 15, 2021, 7:21 pm

Quote from fenn68 on August 15, 2021, 4:28 pm

OK, Tatis is "special" ... returns from the IL with a double, 2 HR, and a clutch 2 RBI single and clearly energized he club.

It looks as though they will use him both in the INF and OF for the remainder of the season ... but I am changing my view for 2022 ... return him full time to SS even if he is not the elite SS we want. Padres' players (and the fans) need him in the center of action at SS for the energy he generates for the club. Saw shot of him in RF (did nothing wrong) but HE sure looked bored (although did not effect his bat).

I am sure the "stats" guys will just focus on analytics (I am usually one of those) ... but in this case Tatis at SS with the excitement he generates always in full view creates value to the rest of the team (makes other better) and clearly better for the fans (and it is important to keep the fans engaged and entertained).

DH will help keep Frazier's bat in the line-up with Tatis at SS / Cronenworth at 2B.

I certainly understand and like your logic ... and I do not (yet) agree with it ...

Is the DH next year for sure?

The trade off becomes: the real impact/benefit of "value to the rest of the team (makes other better) and clearly better for the fans (and it is important to keep the fans engaged and entertained)" vs the real impact/benefit of a better defensive SS ...

A good debate!

Quote from LynchMob on August 20, 2021, 6:38 pm

For the record ...

https://www.mlb.com/padres/news/fernando-tatis-jr-makes-first-start-in-cf