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Andy Green relieved of duties.
#31 · September 23, 2019, 9:29 am
Sort of my same issue with Myers and Renfroe to go along with Hedges .... all three have been in the ML for some time ... ages 27-28 ... and either can't or just will not round out their games to increase their production value.
Hedges got here on defense ... but does not seem to be making the adjustments to add some contact hitting at the expense of swinging for the fences
Myers got here on athletic skills and power .... but contact because of his swing is a problem and despite the ongoing commentary that he is at the top of his game when going to right center ... he always drops back into the looping pull swing.
Renfroe got here on power but the same as Myers zero ability to situationally hit for contact to drive in runs with hits to CF/RF.
Maybe attitude ... maybe physical ... no question about being sub-optimal.
Side note: listened to a former star player (name escapes me) about his ML success as a hitter and what he attributed his hitting success to. Simply, he said he did NOT listen to the coaches about altering his approach and stuck with what got him to the ML. His success may have been an exception for those following that path BUT his comments may reflect more of the player thinking than we understand.
Maybe somewhat easier to get 18-21 year olds to listen to coaching since the need to have success to get to the ML ... but the post-25 lot got there by doing it one way for years on years ... both hard to modify (successfully) with a chance of the opposite effect and losing the skills that got them to the ML.
Does suggest that drafting young kids, developing them to you success model will produce a better product than trying to modify the older prospect and set ML players. So, rather than getting frustrated with under-performance either accept it or replace the player but don't waste time tying (and failing) to fix the older guy.
#32 · September 23, 2019, 9:55 am
Brian, I’m with you 100 percent on Bochy and Black. The 2010 meltdown under Black still gives me nightmares. Bochy is a HOF manager after what he did in SF, but he wasn’t great for Padres young players in his time here.
Andy didn’t have squad to work with his first few years, that is true. However, there is no way you can look at this years squad and say they didn’t underachieve. Do you think the Giants had a more talented roster than the Padres this year? What was with the team getting beaten down by last place teams all year? If the Padres take care of business against the crap teams this season looks a lot different. I saw way too many mistakes and “Bad News Bears”baseball from a team that was young, but also had talent. I really don’t understand why everyone thinks Andy is just Prellers “yes man”. There have been reports they’ve been butting heads for quite a long time. This notion that AJP’s analytics team just spits out a lineup and decisions for Andy just isn’t true. If that was the case, why would Andy do things like pull a lefty starter (Joey) bring in a righty to face a switch hitter who was better from the left side of the plate? I doubt AJP wanted Myers in the 2 hole in front of Manny. I don’t think Hedges getting the majority of starts behind the dish was an AJP decision. I mean AJP traded away a prized lefty reliever to watch Mejia sit the bench behind a guy batting 180 that wasn’t an AJP guy in the first place? I highly doubt that.
#33 · September 23, 2019, 12:48 pm
Apparently Mark Loretta is the front runner for the Cubs job.
If this is true you could probably take him off of the Padres wish list.
#34 · September 23, 2019, 12:54 pm
Quote from Brian Connelly on September 23, 2019, 9:12 amWow. I was ready for Bochy to go when he did; Pads needed a different voice for a young roster & (endless) rebuild.
Was even MORE ready for Bud Black and his tired, emotionless "we ran into a good (#5) pitcher today" and "we don't want to call up too many guys in Sept b/c it will affect the chemistry of our (98 loss) team" platitudes to hit the road.
I don't feel the same way about Andy Green & literally don't get the venom towards him?
When Preller was first hired he was a "Weak" GM; youth & first time in role. His actions & decisions were CLEARLY being affected & partially directed by Mike Dee & owners: bring some "name" MLB players & excitement to SD... we all know how well that worked out. Despite some serious missteps, with the trading out of the vets & the 2016 Intl bonanza, Preller was allowed to do his job & has grown into at least a "Medium" power/status GM.
But AG was as "Weak" a Manager as it gets. Young, 1st time, barely MLB player = low profile, etc. He managed a complete roster turnover, 3 Rule 5 guys all year in 2017, 1 "big" FA in 2018, then 1 "bigger" one in 2019 but with Eric Lauer as his O.D. starter; followed by Lucchessi, an attempted RP conversion (Strahm), and 2 rookies including Nick Margevicius. 4 LHP, 57 starts total among all 5, and 2 guys on major innings limitations.
Then relied extremely heavily upon Tatis goes down for 1 month+ twice... what exactly was AG supposed to do? How many of his actions & decisions everyone is so vehemently "against" were handed down to him by Preller & Front office? Gotta love our world when the Manager is responsible for not "getting more out of" the Vet "All Stars" who get paid 15-20x what he does, both with OPS <.600 in Sept because they're freaking mailing it in.
I'm not starting the Andy Green fan club. I doubted his ability to manage a star laden playoff caliber team... but he sure never got THAT chance. IMO Firing of Green is either a cynical known-years-in-advance move that was going to be made when the time was right (I'm not completely against this; just saying...), or an indictment of Preller & his "sabermetrics team" joint decision making with Manager, or some combo of both.
If anyone thinks throwing AG under the bus is the solution to everything... good luck with that.
I don't think it's about the record and "what AG was supposed to do" as much as it's about the players playing for him and moreso where the roster is.AG was the perfect guy to get his first Managerial position with a rebuilding team not expected to win for 3-4 years....but that isn't this team anymore.NOW we need a guy who "has" won and "will" get this team to win.....not just play.
We need a winning mentality starting from the top.
I hope they get the right guy.
#35 · September 23, 2019, 1:58 pm
Agree on one level they need a new manager with a winning mentality and credibility with the veterans. However, at the same time, it is critical to have the new manager skilled in dealing with young, inexperienced players and Latin players ... they are the core of the long term future success of this organization.
Tough to find a manager with that balance of skills.
Getting the sense that maybe the first criteria in the filter process is ML success (managerial / player / coaching question as to which or the mix) then the second filter will be his ability to develop young players ... but the second filter has to be there.
#36 · September 23, 2019, 2:09 pm
Joe Maddon speaks Spanish fluently. 😉 I remember him saying it’s important for managers to speak Spanish so they can connect with their entire clubhouse.
#37 · September 23, 2019, 2:25 pm
Listening to the D Smith show and an interesting name surfaced .... Buck Showalter. (not one of my favorites). Has had the ML managing success ... been to the playoffs with the NYY, AZ, Baltimore .... Machado had his success under Showalter ... think Showalter was in Texas during Preller's time ... unemployed at this time.
Now don't know the Showalter-Machado or the Showalter-Preller relationships so could go either way.
He does check off the boxes for success as a ML manager and credibility. Plus for those who do NOT like analytics .. he is old school for he most part.
Does wear out his welcome after 3-4 years, partly because as I recall he is a control freak. Lasted longer in Baltimore but that ended with an awesome 115 loss season.
Again, not my guy but does fit from a few perspectives.
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I am beginning to think there is a real chance with Maddon (another guy I don't really like) but he too check the boxes and think Fowler would pony up the big money for him ... plus more importantly think the up and coming Padres may really appeal to Maddon in building his rep from winning in TB and Chicago.
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Hope this does not drag out too long .... would be beneficial having the manager in place participating in player discussions entering the winter deal season.
#38 · September 23, 2019, 4:14 pm
How about Greg Maddux? He was so smart playing the game that I have no idea why he hasnt managed by now, anyone?
#39 · September 23, 2019, 5:24 pm
Quote from Alex Tamayo on September 23, 2019, 4:14 pmHow about Greg Maddux? He was so smart playing the game that I have no idea why he hasnt managed by now, anyone?
I think his son is still playing HS ball and even though he was an extremely smart pitcher, most pitchers dont translate well to manager, and not sure if he has the want to be a manager.
#40 · September 23, 2019, 6:42 pm
Quote from fenn68 on September 23, 2019, 2:25 pmListening to the D Smith show and an interesting name surfaced .... Buck Showalter. (not one of my favorites). Has had the ML managing success ... been to the playoffs with the NYY, AZ, Baltimore .... Machado had his success under Showalter ... think Showalter was in Texas during Preller's time ... unemployed at this time.
Now don't know the Showalter-Machado or the Showalter-Preller relationships so could go either way.
He does check off the boxes for success as a ML manager and credibility. Plus for those who do NOT like analytics .. he is old school for he most part.
Does wear out his welcome after 3-4 years, partly because as I recall he is a control freak. Lasted longer in Baltimore but that ended with an awesome 115 loss season.
Again, not my guy but does fit from a few perspectives.
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I am beginning to think there is a real chance with Maddon (another guy I don't really like) but he too check the boxes and think Fowler would pony up the big money for him ... plus more importantly think the up and coming Padres may really appeal to Maddon in building his rep from winning in TB and Chicago.
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Hope this does not drag out too long .... would be beneficial having the manager in place participating in player discussions entering the winter deal season.
Very interesting. Forgot about him. Then again another old guy (I'm just that).
I've heard Ron Washington. Please no. I wish him all the best but bringing cocaine history is hard. Just can't rely on him for a job like manager. Coach, scouting, front office fine.