Quote from fenn68 on June 25, 2023, 7:03 am

Quote from WindsorUK on June 25, 2023, 6:12 am

Not sure what to think.........

I just compared the stat lines after 70+ games of Ha Seong Kim and Xander Bogaerts. And they are virtually identical!

Does that mean Kim is punching WAY above his weight, or that Bogaerts is giving us for $25 million what we could have had for $7 million?

I didn't know much of Bogaerts game before we signed him( I was ALL in on signing Trea). He does nothing special, at least what I've seen so far.

I hope he starts earning his pay.......and soon!

 

Well Bogaerts was a 5X Silver Slugger, 4X All-Star, and got votes for MVP 5X while producing a good SS OPS+ of 116 … so he is way under-performing for the Padres.

However, I would have been fine if they did not sign Bogaerts and left SS to Kim while focusing on spending that money on better filling out the roster. The AAV is seemed to high for me but it is the length that did not sit well with me.

Kim is still developing his offense but his defense is elite and worth his contract. However, he is probably never going to be an offense force.

Quote from fenn68 on June 25, 2023, 7:12 am

Quote from Stergios on June 25, 2023, 6:50 am

On your list of all-time most frustrating Padre teams, where would the 2023 version rank up to this point? I started following in ‘87, and I would say that this year ranks near the top of the list along with ‘90 and ‘21.

2023 is heading to the top of the list … outpacing 2015. Both have similar profiles of major hype coming into the season with adding major stars with reputations … that is a lot of build-up setting up a depressing fall. 2023 is maybe worse since it is coming after a successful playoff run in 2022 and the way they are failing is the lack of clutch hitting (from players with elite reputations) and that just highlights the failure inning after inning.

Quote from fenn68 on June 25, 2023, 1:24 pm

Quote from fenn68 on June 25, 2023, 7:03 am

Quote from WindsorUK on June 25, 2023, 6:12 am

Not sure what to think.........

I just compared the stat lines after 70+ games of Ha Seong Kim and Xander Bogaerts. And they are virtually identical!

Does that mean Kim is punching WAY above his weight, or that Bogaerts is giving us for $25 million what we could have had for $7 million?

I didn't know much of Bogaerts game before we signed him( I was ALL in on signing Trea). He does nothing special, at least what I've seen so far.

I hope he starts earning his pay.......and soon!

 

Well Bogaerts was a 5X Silver Slugger, 4X All-Star, and got votes for MVP 5X while producing a good SS OPS+ of 116 … so he is way under-performing for the Padres.

However, I would have been fine if they did not sign Bogaerts and left SS to Kim while focusing on spending that money on better filling out the roster. The AAV is seemed to high for me but it is the length that did not sit well with me.

Kim is still developing his offense but his defense is elite and worth his contract. However, he is probably never going to be an offense force.

Just looked at the premium FA SS signed last winter ... not sure any of the teams (except the CUBS) are thinking they got full value:

2.9 WAR ... Swanson (29) ... $177MM/7 years ($25MM AAV) ... 114 wRC+

1.8 WAR ... Bogaerts (30) ... $280MM/11 years ($25MM AAV) ... 107 wRC+

1.2 WAR ... Turner (30) ... $300MM/11 years ($27MM AAV) ... 80 wRC+

0.9 WAR ... Correa (28) ... $200MM/6 years ($33MM AAV) ... 98 wRC+

"nice" production but worth the AAV and length of contracts?

As a bonus observation

-0.2 WAR ... Abrams ... 77 wRC+ ... major Padres prospect in the Soto deal struggling

Quote from WindsorUK on June 25, 2023, 1:48 pm

Since this group is in need of a major red hot poker up the arse, how about shuffling the deck!

Cronenworth, whilst a FAR superior defender at 1B than our previous guy, is a fail from the offensive side. Put him back at 2B. And since Kim is a better defender at SS( and so far equal bat!) to Xander, move him back. Bogaerts wasn't long for the middle infield - why wait to move him? Let him learn on the fly at 1B.

I don't know if any of you guys have seen anything special from this group, to think they're World Champion material. A change for changes sake, after half a season of fairly rotten baseball, certainly couldn't hurt.

We need to do SOMETHING to instigate change! Any other ideas?

Quote from BoosterSD on June 25, 2023, 2:50 pm

I agree, Kim to SS and Crone back to 2B. But we do not need to weaken the defense. Put Bogaerts at DH, and Cruz becomes a hitting coach/assistant manager. Let Dixon/Carpenter share 1B until we make a trade for a 1B. Then get rid of Carpenter.

And maybe Candelario would be a good option for 1B, he is a FA after this season, so should be cheap to get from WAS.

Quote from TarheelPadre on June 25, 2023, 3:54 pm

Hey, hey

Ho, ho

Bob Melvin’s got to go!

and take Preller with you.

Preller may be the most over rated GM in baseball.  Any idiot can can chase the high dollar talent when they have the owners permission.

Quote from fenn68 on June 25, 2023, 5:00 pm

I take the approach that you should blame the players who got the big deals and are underperforming … don’t think any manager can overcome failure with the rag tag bench options.

However, I have been pretty neutral on Preller and … assuming the player decisions over the winter were his … I see failure on his part. Bogaerts was an over pay on a position that was covered and went way too long on a deal. My other issue is the extensions to Darvish (at his age v length of deal) and the pure unjustified and premature extension of Cronenworth. Over paid on Carpenter who after failing for the last few years in STL had a hot hand in NY … and that is it. Then tie those overpays to not building a ML quality bench with no support in AAA.

Got lucky with both Wacha and Lugo … two arms not getting much traction as FA but that is it.

I did not look at the updated standings but think the Padres are as close to last place as they are to the wild card based on losses.

Don’t see anything happening before the All-Star break (mainly because other teams are not ready to make moves) … but soon after the Padres are seemingly headed for a “sell” position. FA Snell and Hader should have a good market for some quality prospects. Soto (maybe if wishes come true). Will suggest Wacha and Martinez both with good chances of opting out if not given their club options of $32M/2 years and if some team comes in hard on them with a good offer why not. Lugo on a player option is a safe bet to opt out … so he too could be on the block.

I know that some like to never give up approach but sometimes a strategic retreat in the short run will make a winner sooner than later.

No trade (and big contracts) keep others out of the discussion … so in one sense 2024 will still have a strong baseline (in theory if the slackers rebound) and hopefully some better roster building (FA with the saved money and returns from the trades).

Want shake up … sell on big names.

 

Quote from BoosterSD on June 25, 2023, 8:28 pm

Im sorry, a lot of this falls on Melvin. He has taken the keys to Ferrari and turned it into a pinto.

And probably Preller needs to go as well.

Quote from Jeremy Hill on June 26, 2023, 8:43 am

There's plenty of blame to go around. To me it has to start with Preller. To give him credit he brought the excitement level and expectations for the team to new heights. There's never been this much sustained interest in the team for this many seasons. We're in year 9 now though and we've only had 2 seasons with a winning record. For all the trades he's made and money he's spent the end result simply isn't good enough. If you want to blame the players he's the one that brought them in. The same goes for Melvin, Tingler and Green. At a certain point you have to look for the common thread. To me that's Preller.