Quote from fenn68 on October 3, 2019, 4:19 pm

Quote from TatisJr on October 3, 2019, 1:05 pm

I wonder if the Cubs would part with Ian Happ for a couple of Padres young arms? He’s not a game changer, but I like Happ. His plate discipline and versatility would be nice to have on the Padres. AJP needs to reunite Maddon and Happ in San Diego.

Cubs would jump at the opportunity to move Happ for a couple good young arms.

He may have stated out with a lot of potential but a bad fielder, spotty hitter .... Cubs sent him down to AAA last season. Not sure he is much (if any) upgrade worth giving up anything good to get him.

Quote from fenn68 on October 3, 2019, 4:54 pm

Quote from Henry Silvestre on October 3, 2019, 1:44 pm

I think if we are looking at Joc.. we should just sign Cory Dickerson-- Dickerson has better BAT skills, about same if not slightly better Power, Joc is a bit better on D and can play (has played) a lot in CF.. BUT Dickerson likely around $9-$11 mil per is cheaper and doesnt require prospects.

 

I think AJP can make a BIG SPLASH type Trade, LINDOR probably the best BAT available via trade and yes he will cost a pretty penny in Prospects and in 2 yrs (or now if they offer to extend him)... Why we do this? Because AJP's job is on the line, we know he can build a farm on a dime, so why not "Go for it" and Add a Huge quality piece, Machado + Good (and no dont say we went for it in 2015/16 and compare a prime years Lindor to much lesser talents like Kemp and Upton and Upton) Lindor is a STUD... arb 2 (around $18mil)

Padres trade -- Urias + Torrens + Ornelas + Arias + Quantrill + Renfroe and Lauer to Indians

 

Then sign Cory Dickerson COF (lefty) $10 mil 2yrs +1 option at $12 or $2 mil buyout .. + $10 mil

 

on the Pitching side

 

Trade Myers+ Naylor + Allen + Morejon  for David Price + Benintendi  (added payroll +$36mil - $22mil = net + $14mil

Sign MadBum 3yrs $55mil as FA (added payroll 2020 + $18.3mil)

 

SP (after offseason) Mad Bum + Paddack + Price + Lamet + Lucchesi.... Richards/Gore/Bolanos/Nix/Patino etc.. provide excellent depth and Richards can be that guy that Swings and can provide excellent value (ala Eovaldi in 2018) while maintaining him fresh and not taxing his arm too much...  That is one hell of a rotation

 

Lineup: Tatis Jr 2B/ Lindor SS/ Machado 3b/Dickerson RF/Mejia C/Hosmer 1B/ Benintendi LF/ (Margot/Frenchy/Jank platoon) CF

Tatis is an excellent 2B and has had playing time there, Lindor is a GG caliber SS and thus gets the nod at SS, Tatis Jr can play there to give Lindor a breather, could also move to 3B to give Machado a blow..

 

Bench - Hedges C, France 1B/2B/3B, Garcia 2B/IF, (the other 2 OF'ers who sit out of Franchy/Jank/Margot)

 

Lineup is balanced, SP has playoffs 1-2-3 depth and depth overall, plus 2 best young stars on come, knicks and tweaks and injuries do happen, especially minor ones so the young Depth and depth in general plays well here..

Added payroll for 2020 +$61 mil... Pushes the limits to about $163,000,000 for 2020... But what about Lindor in 2 yrs? etc,,, Price drops off $32 mil in 3 so Pads can get creative and navigate that landscape accordingly- could also trade Price (especially if he pitches well and stsays healthy for a boat load in 2021 or 22 as Gore and/or Patino and others by then start to establish themselves) also lets not forget Richards ($8mil drops off in 2021, and Hosmer in 2022 goes to $13 mil (-$7mil) the majority of the Kids will still be in minimum deals or arb 1.. so a 2020/21/22 Window opens.. and with Trammell/Campusano/CJ/Edwards/etc.. from the position player side and Patino/Gore/Cantillo/Weathers/ etc.. from the P side the Next Wave carries this thing foward for a while.. and I didnt even mention Potts/Head/Mears/etc.. etc..

We've never seen a payroll like this before -but even with a $35mil per extension to Lindor (with Price and others coming off the books or moved) this team can go $163mil 1 or 2 yrs.. drop comfortably to the $130 mil range for about 5 yrs (MadBum, Dickerson, others would fall off the books) and be in a great position for another 5 with rookies coming in, contracts coming due, players being moved and the system being replenish... payroll and path almost identical to how Houston has done it-- and continues to move pieces in and out as they price themselves out yr in and out...

Not sure Padres do something like this-- but when its all said and done, its the type of Bold offseason that makes sense in this moment in time

Cleveland is not that desperate so as to take that mass of players for one of the best players ... offensively and defensively in MLB. Other teams would blow that offer out of the water with better offers. Don't even start talk with Cleveland unless one of Tatis, Paddack, or Gore are included.

On Price v Myers ... in one sense a pretty even straight up deal if you base it on comparative underperformance of their contracts ... assuming both at 2019 performance levels and their contracts going forward for the next 3 years. Both are producing around $14MM UNDER their respective contracts. I guess it depends how much the Red Sox value shedding and the Padres value adding $36MM over the next 3 years for the difference in on field play. That is hard to read on both sides considering the Red Sox have other avenues to shed payroll may not be their first choice. Fair chance a team would take a bigger piece of Price's contract (he is still good) and not try to saddle Boston with a player such as Myers. Adding Benintendi to the mix just makes the deal harder to pull off since Boston should have no incentive to move him.

Side bar: trying to trade Myers ... AND most of his contract ... AND get something valuable in return is not going to go anywhere ... probably even if some very good prospects are sent with Myers. Probably at a minimum after his poor 2019 the Padres will need to thing about eating 60-75% of his deal and not sure anyone would take him then if just given away. That would be a lot of coin to throw away .... so, I would hold on Myers (dead money is dead money) and there are not current 5 better OF options on the team .... and run him out again in 2020 ... maybe he shows enough for others to be interested .. take more of contract (albeit less owed).

Quote from JasonE135 on October 3, 2019, 6:18 pm

Again, I have to agree with every word fenn just said. Every single word this time.

Quote from Cptjack on October 4, 2019, 2:31 pm

The idea that there aren't 5 better OF options is intentionally misframing the problem with Myers. You don't need players to be better than Myers. They just need to cost significantly less because Myers already took the productivity aspect out of the equation. It's the entire reason he needed to get gone last winter with Renfroe near his production.

Quote from JasonE135 on October 4, 2019, 3:36 pm

Quote from Cptjack on October 4, 2019, 2:31 pm

The idea that there aren't 5 better OF options is intentionally misframing the problem with Myers. You don't need players to be better than Myers. They just need to cost significantly less because Myers already took the productivity aspect out of the equation. It's the entire reason he needed to get gone last winter with Renfroe near his production.

Myers has a guaranteed contract. He is expensive. People don't want his $60 million plus obligation on their team any more than we want it on ours. He is here, we have to live with it and hope he returns to his previous productive self. His is an obligation at this point, not a player of value. We can trade him, but we will not get anything back but someone else's obligation. He is an inoperable tumor at this point. Sure it needs to be gone, but there is nothing we can do about it at this point so we might as well move on.

Quote from Cptjack on October 4, 2019, 5:04 pm

That's ignoring literally what came out of Fowler's mouth 2 days ago. It's a choice between 20m and 0 production and 10m and 0 production.

Quote from MrPadre19 on October 4, 2019, 5:07 pm

Quote from Cptjack on October 4, 2019, 2:31 pm

The idea that there aren't 5 better OF options is intentionally misframing the problem with Myers. You don't need players to be better than Myers. They just need to cost significantly less because Myers already took the productivity aspect out of the equation. It's the entire reason he needed to get gone last winter with Renfroe near his production.

Saving money won’t win us more games.....finding outfielders better than Myers may.

 

Quote from Cptjack on October 4, 2019, 5:14 pm

Quote from David Nevin on October 4, 2019, 5:07 pm

Saving money won’t win us more games.....finding outfielders better than Myers may.

Maybe if you're being reductive. Allocation of resources is the primary means of improvement. When you have the same production at 10m or 600k you get to allocate 9.4m elsewhere to potentially win more games.

Quote from JasonE135 on October 4, 2019, 5:40 pm

How do you suggest we get rid of Myers Capt. Jack? That would be a major salary dump akin to the Cano trade last year. Seattle gave up the guy who was far and away the best closer in mob last year to get rid of Cano. That would be like us giving another team Yates to take Myers. Except Yates is a lot older, doesn't throw anywhere near as hard, and has a lot less team control. So we would probably have to add Munoz. Besides which Cano was still reasonably productive with the bat. Myers was not this year. So that should mean we would have to throw more in. I would say we would not, just because after how that trade worked out with Seattle getting Kelenic in addition to getting rid of Cano, nobody will throw a prospect of any value back to us in this theoretical trade. So it comes down to: Is it worth us giving up a Yates and a Munoz in value just to get rid of Myers? I do not think it is.