Quote from onlypads on February 21, 2020, 6:27 am

Quote from TatisJr on February 20, 2020, 4:56 pm

Quote from onlypads on February 20, 2020, 12:52 pm

C'mon bro, no need to say "using facts is difficult for you." This is a fan forum, just relax. Yes 3finger can rant sometimes and be dismissive but all I know is I learn something from each and everyone of you on here.

And some of his and your points are valid. Stats express a metric. Obviously they do not determine the future and they are obviously limited as to the parameters of that metric. There are sound arguments regarding the applicability of WAR and the actual marginal gain associated with swaps of players having various associated WAR production.

I know you’re fairly new to this forum, but 3finger has had this same rant about WAR for a very long time and he repeats it OFTEN. I have my own specific issues with WAR calculation and I’ve pointed them out on here before. He clearly doesn’t understand WAR so he just makes up this little story about agents creating the stat when the opposite is true. Agents hated when stats like WAR started getting used by FO. It just a fact. He always uses this rant to dismiss any poster who uses WAR when talking about a player. It’s gotten a little old. Sorry for pointing out that his rant was filled with BS.

1. I conceded that he can rant and be dismissive. That does not mean he doesnt understand WAR. That is your assessment and your opinion. Further, his "little story" may or may not be related to his understanding of WAR and certainly does not establish his understanding.

2. It is not a "fact" one way or the other way that agents liked or disliked WAR. You are referring to a diverse subset that cannot be blanketly characterized. Some agents may have hated it, others surely loved it when it positively benefitted their clients.

3. You assert that his rant is BS but your rant includes certain assumptions and is conclusory.

4. Yes you have been on this board for more time than me. Apparently, it looks like eight months more than me. Nevertheless, I have seen 3finger discuss WAR more than a few times.

Again arguments regarding WAR and its applicability are fair game, especially in a trade thread. I also agree that commentary that is creative and novel is certainly more additive than running out past, dismissive positions.

Quote from Brian Connelly on February 21, 2020, 8:18 am

Quote from TatisJr on February 20, 2020, 5:01 pm

I actually agree with 3finger on AG having a negative effect on Myers. AG was terrible with young players like Myers, Renfroe, Margot and Joey. I think all 4 will improve just from not having AG around. Myers is capable of a bounce back, but I doubt it happens in a Padres uni.

I'm not attacking this idea... I'm genuinely curious WHY specifically you & many others feel this way?   WHAT was AG doing that was so detrimental to these guys?   There was clearly some kind of communication crossup with Myers, but go back to when AG got hired; Myers was "the cornerstone" guy remaining who got the big extension.   After the failed "create a contender from nothing" attempt in 2015, Wil was the leader of the team ; a role he is spectacularly unsuited for.  It just isn't him.  AG invested heavily (correctly) in the relationship with Wil; particularly b/c he started playing new positions.  I distinctly remember (a few years ago) Myers saying how close he was with AG, they talked daily, etc...

... I just REALLY feel like there is this narrative going on here about Andy Green that I didn't hear a whisper about during the season last year.   Complaints about his lineups & use of bullpen... yes, dime a dozen.  But it feels a little revisionist history/reality to suddenly now say he "messed up" Myers & all these young guys (when he's one of the younger Managers in MLB?)

Quote from onlypads on February 21, 2020, 8:31 am

I think there is a middle ground and tend to agree with Brian but I'll let others chime in. I think AG failed to inspire confidence and didnt appropriately hold players accountable (obviously just an observation and inference given that I wasnt in the locker room).

On the other hand Myers has been inconsistent and I am not sure we can attribute line up changes to AG. Preller/FO may have played a larger role than we think.

Quote from Brian Connelly on February 21, 2020, 8:53 am

I've figured out my gut core reasoning for not really liking the Pads lingering "get a star player" aspirations as preseason is about to start, and it's really simple:   It feels like SD is trying to "force" a move with the limited options available at this time; when almost all teams' rosters are "set". 

Lindor and Bryant are major $$ commits that require not only dumping Myers, but doing so with enough "attached" that payroll doesn't increase from it's current level in 2020 AT ALL?   That is a ridiculous contradictory conflict.

Ideal positions:  Lindor - SS, Bryant & Senzel - 3B.  Lindor makes ANY team better but pushes the face of our franchise off SS to a position that would be a very distant third in terms of Tatis' experience/defensive ability; either 2B or CF.  Bryant has shown positional flexibility, and is a more logical fit in RF, but has to profile as below average defensively there?  Senzel feels like he would be going from a team where he's blocked at 3B to a team where he's even MORE blocked at 3B.  More questions than answers last year with the bat (similar to Urias);  move to 2B would likely work though.

Lindor's the best player, but the worst "fit" due to Tatis (& Machado).  Bryant a better flexible fit.  Senzel more potential than production so far (like Luis Urias), but maybe the best fit?

Bottom line to me is I am OK with Myer & Q out for NO LESS than 30 MM savings as a standalone deal.  OK with SOME other players/minor prospects in that deal, but not "Campusano", "Arias", etc.... just to save more $$; amounts to overpaying for a trade for any of the big 3 above.  Alternatives:  1)  Just try to trade directly for Senzel;$ not an issue.  2)  "Take it or leave it" to Boston to trade who WE are OK with (not top 100 -ish prospects) for $$ we are happy with; get majority of savings NEXT 2 years, not 2020.  3)  Try to maximize return for an "excess" SP like Q or Joey on a standalone deal to get more prospect talent for a future (deadline?) subsequent trade.  But this would likely eliminate Boston as a trade partner for Myers.

 

 

Quote from sportwarrior on February 21, 2020, 9:33 am

I can't think of many specific quotes, but I feel like there was a subtle feeling the last few seasons and a strong undercurrent throughout the back half of last season that I feel reflected very negatively on AG's relationship with the team. Myers might be the most likely to benefit personally from a change in management, but I think the team as a whole had failed to buy into AG's style.

I'm a big fan of the new staff overall, although I still have no idea what to make of Tingler and cannot help but feel Ron Washington was a better choice for our guys at this point.

Quote from 3fingersplit on February 21, 2020, 10:11 am

Nice

Thank you for the insight as I had no idea that personal attacks were okay here on this forum. The only problem with responding to personal attacks is that you have to get down in the mud with pigs and two things are certain.....you get dirty and the pigs like it....I prefer to stay out of the mud and I don't care for pigs.

It's also good to know that unless a posted opinion doesn't fit into your narrative as to what is right or wrong it's considered a rant and therefore a target of opportunity by a uneducated, uninformed person with self esteem issues.....just glad to know who some of the players are

Carry on but let me go get some popcorn

Quote from onlypads on February 21, 2020, 10:16 am

Quote from sportwarrior on February 21, 2020, 9:33 am

I can't think of many specific quotes, but I feel like there was a subtle feeling the last few seasons and a strong undercurrent throughout the back half of last season that I feel reflected very negatively on AG's relationship with the team. Myers might be the most likely to benefit personally from a change in management, but I think the team as a whole had failed to buy into AG's style.

I'm a big fan of the new staff overall, although I still have no idea what to make of Tingler and cannot help but feel Ron Washington was a better choice for our guys at this point.

I am probably overly optimistic, but I am really excited about Tings. At first I felt the same EXACT way. Maybe in a few months it will return haha.

Quote from Henry Silvestre on February 21, 2020, 10:26 am

Anyone else reading too much about Q being the SP tomorrow? ... Why Q? Showcase for a trade? or simplywant to settle#5 SP Joey vs Q sooner than later and want those 2 to be 1st up?

Quote from sportwarrior on February 21, 2020, 10:31 am

I'm stoked to see Quantrill this spring. He had a f*cking marvelous stretch of starts over the summer last year and I think he's absolutely capable of repeating that in extended form. I'm hoping he's made some strides over the offseason and is ready for the next step. If he can replace Lucchessi in the rotation I'd be thrilled.