Quote from Stergios on July 27, 2023, 6:56 pm

Quote from fenn68 on July 27, 2023, 2:24 pm

Quote from MrPadre19 on July 27, 2023, 12:25 pm

I just don't see how the guy with the 158 OPS+ is the problem.

His career OPS+ is 157 btw

OPS with RISP:

Soto-.977

Tatis-.849

Machado-.803

Bogaerts-.735

Kim-.680

Cronenworth-.657

Juan Soto is not our problem

I go back to my contention that those stats don't fully reflect each players' hitting in clutch situations / late and close / RISP on a consistent basis ... some blowout games where everyone loads up on the stats but then zip.

So they may not be THE problem but they are in the discussion. Agree that Cronenworth / Nola are a major piece of the problem based on expectations ... and then the uninspiring pack of bodies trying to fill out a ML roster that we can blame on Preller.

So ... failure is a team effort (or lack thereof).

Actually this season is killing my theory that if you put average (or even below average) player on a team with an elite set of hitters (think Soto, Machado, Tatis, Bogaerts) they will hit above expectations since the "secondary pitchers" will be in the game sooner than later and with the main hitters on base can really pitch around the others. I guess the average (or below average) have to better than the mess the Padres have assembled for that role and maybe the big four has not crushed the opposition early enough to set up that scenario.

I think your last statement is accurate.  Too much inconsistency from “the big 4”.  Manny did nothing until mid-June.  Tati continues to go on streaks, X has pretty much been a non-factor since the end of April (he’s been getting on base lately, but has no power).  Soto gets on at a .430 clip or something, but the guys behind him can’t do anything.

Quote from sportwarrior on July 27, 2023, 11:28 pm

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/padres/story/2023-07-27/padres-gm-a-j-preller-has-been-both-buyer-and-seller-at-mlbs-trade-deadline-heres-what-hes-done

1. We had one fewer in the loss column and one more game to make up in the standings in 2015 than we do now. That's.... heart breaking.
2. Preller's trade deadline "buying" history is A T R O C I O U S. Rosenthal stands as the one true positive win at the deadline as a buyer. Nearly ALL of the other acquisitions have been disasters.

Quote from WindsorUK on July 28, 2023, 12:50 am

Quote from sportwarrior on July 27, 2023, 11:28 pm

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/padres/story/2023-07-27/padres-gm-a-j-preller-has-been-both-buyer-and-seller-at-mlbs-trade-deadline-heres-what-hes-done

1. We had one fewer in the loss column and one more game to make up in the standings in 2015 than we do now. That's.... heart breaking.
2. Preller's trade deadline "buying" history is A T R O C I O U S. Rosenthal stands as the one true positive win at the deadline as a buyer. Nearly ALL of the other acquisitions have been disasters.

S'truth!

Preller should 100% NOT be allowed to trade at the deadline.

Otherwise we'd have France, Naylor, Munoz, and Quantrill on the roster instead of Clevinger and Nola......oh, wait a minute....

Quote from fenn68 on July 28, 2023, 8:45 am

Note that the NYM have traded their closer to MIA … two points:

1. NYM are tied in the loss column with the Padres and have a bigger payroll invested in their team than the Padres … both with owners who are motivated fans … NYM have decided to pull the plug on 2023

2. Robertson is one of the top closers this season (and a FA after the season) … Mets got two very young (but good) prospects from MIA … one 17 and one 19 and both playing well in the FCL. No idea how the METS evaluated these players vs other MIA prospects or did they have a bias for younger upside controllable pieces if their own system is filled with upper level players who need to be 40 man rostered. However, some sense of return on a closer who will be a FA but not nearly as good as Hader … plus another closer off the market should suggest a better return if Hader is moved.

Quote from fenn68 on July 30, 2023, 2:30 am

Padres gain a game in the Wild Card race … now “only” 5 games behind the last in but still have to pass three teams with 49 losses and the Cubs with 51. Padres at 54 … so effectively have to out play the others by 6 games the rest of they way.

The games behind is of course an issue but the bigger challenge is passing all those other teams in the games remaining … some of them will be winning too.

I guess on the optimistic side … the #1 and #2 Wild Card slots are held by teams with 48 losses (one better than #3) and one of them could fall apart and effectively put a second Wild Card in play.

The two wins vs Texas likely takes the Padres out of the sellers group … Preller / Seidler are too optimistic and committed.

Quote from fenn68 on July 30, 2023, 2:47 am

So we are now closer to the Padres being buyers … and the targets vary on who is speculating … SP with Wacha injured and Lugo maybe hitting an innings limit as a SP (but every other team is looking for SP help) … RP (so is every other team) … and a hitter to lengthen the line-up.

What is a challenge in this market is identifying specific players who are available … does not appear to be a lot of sellers and those who will be may not have the most impressive players to upgrade the Padres. Have to look at who is performing well NOW since the objective is to win NOW … pasts success is essentially irrelevant and not worth the likely price to acquire.

Who will the Padres make available in an attempt to outbid other teams for what is looking to be fringe upgrades (don’t see any Soto like players on the market)? Will those options be good enough to obtain the targets? (We do tend to like our prospects maybe a bit more than others). I will assume that Merrill, Salas, Lesko, Zavala, and Lesko are off the board given the probably trade options.

Quote from MrPadre19 on July 30, 2023, 7:06 am

I still think I would still trade Hader “if” we can get a good 8th inning guy back(Suarez to Closer) and a DH that can hit for this year and next.

Not sure what that looks like…but should be doable from a contender.

Doesn’t give up on 23’(May even improve) and settles a spot for next year.

There are a lot of buyers this year and who couldn’t use Hader?

Side note: I don’t like Hader personally and “if” there is any rift in the Clubhouse it wouldn’t surprise me if he’s one of the factors.It doesn’t seem like any of his team mates are extremely close to him….does it to you?

Also,I’m OK standing pat and just adding a good RP of any kind and a RH  DH/1B/PH

 

 

 

Quote from Jeremy Hill on July 30, 2023, 8:04 am

I'm not a huge fan of Hader either. I just don't like his attitude towards wanting to only be a 3 out guy. I think he was much more valuable when he first came up in the sort of fireman/ multi-inning weapon role. Having said that it's hard to argue with his results. I also saw that Musgrove made a comment about how they are going to want Hader and Snell around when they get back in it. Even if they add another arm while moving him it's hard to see it going over well in the clubhouse. We saw what happened after the Brewers traded him to us last year.

Quote from fenn68 on July 30, 2023, 8:31 am

Quote from MrPadre19 on July 30, 2023, 7:06 am

I still think I would still trade Hader “if” we can get a good 8th inning guy back(Suarez to Closer) and a DH that can hit for this year and next.

Not sure what that looks like…but should be doable from a contender.

Doesn’t give up on 23’(May even improve) and settles a spot for next year.

There are a lot of buyers this year and who couldn’t use Hader?

Side note: I don’t like Hader personally and “if” there is any rift in the Clubhouse it wouldn’t surprise me if he’s one of the factors.It doesn’t seem like any of his team mates are extremely close to him….does it to you?

Also,I’m OK standing pat and just adding a good RP of any kind and a RH  DH/1B/PH

 

 

 

Hard pressed to see a team give us a quality 8th inning RP as part of a deal to get a closer ... just not enough overall help to their pen. More likely the will just be trying to use their prospects.

However IF Preller is really working the phones ... he could move Hader (Suarez to closer) for a prospect to impact 2024 (think hitter or SP) and in a second trade move a lesser prospect (further away) for a late inning decent RP or a #5 SP to bolster 2023.

A gamble to be sure since adding some risk to 2023 with Suarez assuming the closer role. On the other hand that is why the Padres gave him the long term / large contract last winter ... they must have some faith.

The key would be the quality of the prospect (and proximity to helping in 2024) to justify taking the risk.

Seems as though the Padres have little interest in pursuing Hader as a FA ... guessing his demands will be too high even if they would like him back ... not sure they do.