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OFFSEASON 2023-24
#1181 · December 28, 2023, 10:26 am
Quote from BoosterSD on December 28, 2023, 10:01 amWith Kiner-Falefa signing in TOR for 2 years at $15M, an AAV of $7.5M, I think that Crone's contract is not as burdensome as some think.
Sure, the AAV is higher and longer (understand that the length is part of the problem); however, Crone has been the more productive player, is a LHH, and better defensively.
Im not saying that it would be easy to move Crone after his down season, but its not like his contract is a boat anchor like that of Hosmer, especially if Crone is back at 2B, and has a good season.
Probably the best strategy to move Croney is to get him back to 2B for 2024 (and maybe 2025) had hope his performance moves back up a bit ... as the cost of players continue to rise while the length of his contract shrinks, he becomes much more appealing.
Based on today's roster ... good chance Kim does not return in 2024 relegating the INF down to Machado - Merrill - Croney - Bogaerts and maybe two of Batten / Rosario / Pauley for the bench. Not much after that. So, unless they re-sign Kim ... not in a position to move Croney ... yet and not with his value at a low.
#1182 · December 28, 2023, 6:50 pm
There seems to be a lot of chatter around Teoscar Hernandez and the Red Sox. There's some speculation that they could look to trade an OF for pitching if they land him. I still think the idea of a package built around Cronenworth for Yoshida would make sense. I think Wilyer Abreu could be very good on the strong side of a platoon in a corner. Duran would be the costliest option. I don't love Rafaela, but he could be in play too. Maybe we could look to use some of the pitching prospect depth to pick up an outfielder.
#1183 · December 29, 2023, 1:09 am
Quote from Jeremy Hill on December 28, 2023, 6:50 pmThere seems to be a lot of chatter around Teoscar Hernandez and the Red Sox. There's some speculation that they could look to trade an OF for pitching if they land him. I still think the idea of a package built around Cronenworth for Yoshida would make sense. I think Wilyer Abreu could be very good on the strong side of a platoon in a corner. Duran would be the costliest option. I don't love Rafaela, but he could be in play too. Maybe we could look to use some of the pitching prospect depth to pick up an outfielder.
Doubt Cronenworth would draw must interest from BOS … they are pretty set in the middle INF and their top prospects are middle INF Plus he is a LHH and if anything BOS is way overloaded with LHH.
They are looking for the same thing the Padres are … pitching … so, likely not a match. More likely the can use an OF to get Bieber out of Cleveland who needs OF (hitting) help … cheaply.
Yoshida had a very good year hitting but it seems that he may be destined for DH … apparently his fielding is not all that impressive. Sort of debatable if he is worth the remaining 4 years / $18MM AAV on his deal (and a team would have to give a decent return to get him).
Abreu is likely the OF moved … LHH / good defense in RF … hitting may be the question going forward … just 25. Would appeal to the Padres at league minimum with 6 years control. Still, not sure what pitching the Padres are willing to offer (given their own needs) that would appeal to Boston’s current needs. Note he was 18th on the Boston Top 30 … so his hitting in the ML last season may just be a bit over achieving but given the Padres situation he would seem a good add depending on the pitching needed to get him.
#1184 · December 29, 2023, 7:25 am
Quote from fenn68 on December 29, 2023, 1:09 amQuote from Jeremy Hill on December 28, 2023, 6:50 pmThere seems to be a lot of chatter around Teoscar Hernandez and the Red Sox. There's some speculation that they could look to trade an OF for pitching if they land him. I still think the idea of a package built around Cronenworth for Yoshida would make sense. I think Wilyer Abreu could be very good on the strong side of a platoon in a corner. Duran would be the costliest option. I don't love Rafaela, but he could be in play too. Maybe we could look to use some of the pitching prospect depth to pick up an outfielder.
Doubt Cronenworth would draw must interest from BOS … they are pretty set in the middle INF and their top prospects are middle INF Plus he is a LHH and if anything BOS is way overloaded with LHH.
They are looking for the same thing the Padres are … pitching … so, likely not a match. More likely the can use an OF to get Bieber out of Cleveland who needs OF (hitting) help … cheaply.
Yoshida had a very good year hitting but it seems that he may be destined for DH … apparently his fielding is not all that impressive. Sort of debatable if he is worth the remaining 4 years / $18MM AAV on his deal (and a team would have to give a decent return to get him).
Abreu is likely the OF moved … LHH / good defense in RF … hitting may be the question going forward … just 25. Would appeal to the Padres at league minimum with 6 years control. Still, not sure what pitching the Padres are willing to offer (given their own needs) that would appeal to Boston’s current needs. Note he was 18th on the Boston Top 30 … so his hitting in the ML last season may just be a bit over achieving but given the Padres situation he would seem a good add depending on the pitching needed to get him.
They're far from set in the middle infield. Story will get a spot because of his contract, but he's been awful and has struggled to stay healthy since arriving in Boston. This is a team that had guys like Kike Hernandez, Christian Arroyo, Yu Chang, and Luis Urias get most of the playing time up the middle. Enmanuel Valdez might be their best option on the roster.
Marcelo Mayer fell way off once he got to AA. Rafaela and Nick Yorke are the only prospects that are close and they both have questions of their own.
I doubt the Red Sox will look to trade for a rental with where they stand in the division. They finished last behind 3 playoff teams and the Yankees who picked up Soto from us.
Yoshida's defense isn't great. I still think his bat would make him a better fit than keeping Cronenworth and playing either Bogaerts or him out of position. From the Red Sox standpoint they could bring back Justin Turner or add a different right handed bat into the DH mix. I think Cronenworth plus someone like Mazur would make sense for both sides.
I'm sure the Red Sox would prefer to trade for an established young starter. I'm just not sure that's really an option for them. The Mariners don't seem inclined to make a move and the Marlins depth doesn't look as strong as it once did. Who else is out there? We would at least be able to give them something that might be able to help in the second half and beyond in a deal for Yoshida or Abreu.
#1185 · December 29, 2023, 9:08 am
I can see the fit with the Red Sox but would they really trade Yoshida? Plus, Yoshida's CBT is about 6M more than Cronenworth's from 2025 to through 2027 and a lot more this year, which may be too much to subtract from our available budget if we're still looking for a decent innings eater pitcher. Yoshida, however, may be easier to move in the future than Cronenworth, so you have that in your favor. With Preller, anything is possible and while I'd hate to lose Mazur, he's the next echelon down in pitching potential and you never know if a pitcher, because of injury or mechanics, will ever make it to the bigs and pitch on a consistently high basis.
#1186 · December 29, 2023, 9:21 am
The best option would be to package Bogaerts along with about $25M and ship him back to BOS. Keep Kim at SS and extend him, put Crone at 2B, and sign Hoskins or another real 1B.
#1187 · December 29, 2023, 9:27 am
Quote from Jeremy Hill on December 29, 2023, 7:25 amQuote from fenn68 on December 29, 2023, 1:09 amQuote from Jeremy Hill on December 28, 2023, 6:50 pmThere seems to be a lot of chatter around Teoscar Hernandez and the Red Sox. There's some speculation that they could look to trade an OF for pitching if they land him. I still think the idea of a package built around Cronenworth for Yoshida would make sense. I think Wilyer Abreu could be very good on the strong side of a platoon in a corner. Duran would be the costliest option. I don't love Rafaela, but he could be in play too. Maybe we could look to use some of the pitching prospect depth to pick up an outfielder.
Doubt Cronenworth would draw must interest from BOS … they are pretty set in the middle INF and their top prospects are middle INF Plus he is a LHH and if anything BOS is way overloaded with LHH.
They are looking for the same thing the Padres are … pitching … so, likely not a match. More likely the can use an OF to get Bieber out of Cleveland who needs OF (hitting) help … cheaply.
Yoshida had a very good year hitting but it seems that he may be destined for DH … apparently his fielding is not all that impressive. Sort of debatable if he is worth the remaining 4 years / $18MM AAV on his deal (and a team would have to give a decent return to get him).
Abreu is likely the OF moved … LHH / good defense in RF … hitting may be the question going forward … just 25. Would appeal to the Padres at league minimum with 6 years control. Still, not sure what pitching the Padres are willing to offer (given their own needs) that would appeal to Boston’s current needs. Note he was 18th on the Boston Top 30 … so his hitting in the ML last season may just be a bit over achieving but given the Padres situation he would seem a good add depending on the pitching needed to get him.
They're far from set in the middle infield. Story will get a spot because of his contract, but he's been awful and has struggled to stay healthy since arriving in Boston. This is a team that had guys like Kike Hernandez, Christian Arroyo, Yu Chang, and Luis Urias get most of the playing time up the middle. Enmanuel Valdez might be their best option on the roster.
Marcelo Mayer fell way off once he got to AA. Rafaela and Nick Yorke are the only prospects that are close and they both have questions of their own.
I doubt the Red Sox will look to trade for a rental with where they stand in the division. They finished last behind 3 playoff teams and the Yankees who picked up Soto from us.
Yoshida's defense isn't great. I still think his bat would make him a better fit than keeping Cronenworth and playing either Bogaerts or him out of position. From the Red Sox standpoint they could bring back Justin Turner or add a different right handed bat into the DH mix. I think Cronenworth plus someone like Mazur would make sense for both sides.
I'm sure the Red Sox would prefer to trade for an established young starter. I'm just not sure that's really an option for them. The Mariners don't seem inclined to make a move and the Marlins depth doesn't look as strong as it once did. Who else is out there? We would at least be able to give them something that might be able to help in the second half and beyond in a deal for Yoshida or Abreu.
Yoshida's slugging dropped month by month last year as pitchers learned his tendencies. He had a 109 OPS+ last year. Next year will almost certainly be less. He is basically a league average bat with slugging under .400 and bad defense for $18 million per year. He is a Crone who plays outfield and costs twice as much. I don't see that happening.
Preller may trade for a first or second year player with cheap control for several years, maybe(my hope) a minor leaguer with promise ready to make his debut, but probably just sign someone like Profar for cheap as a temporary patch until Marsee or Zavala can take over in the future.
#1188 · December 29, 2023, 10:24 am
I just can't see any team wanting to take Cronenworth at age 30 with a 7 year contract at an $11.4MM AAV considering in his 4 years his wRC+ has dropped from 126 -> 117 -> 110 -> 92 and below ML average while actually giving anything of quality back. Better chance getting a similar set of 2B over that timeframe for a lot less ... it is only a 2B.
Still think the best route is to keep Cronenworth for 2024 AT 2B and see if he can rebuild some value ... see if Merrill is the prospect hoped for ... determine if they can (or want to) re-sign Kim which is no guarantee if he has a good season and commands a big long deal ($18MM AAV) from SF. Fair chance the Padres do not want any new big long term deals so as not to crimp their payroll flexibility as the roster evolves in the next few years. If they did, more likely the try the ATL route and sign a Merrill, Snelling, and such in their 1st-2nd season long term but at what is presumed a bargain AAV.
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#1189 · December 29, 2023, 11:45 am
Quote from fenn68 on December 29, 2023, 10:24 amI just can't see any team wanting to take Cronenworth at age 30 with a 7 year contract at an $11.4MM AAV considering in his 4 years his wRC+ has dropped from 126 -> 117 -> 110 -> 92 and below ML average while actually giving anything of quality back. Better chance getting a similar set of 2B over that timeframe for a lot less ... it is only a 2B.
Still think the best route is to keep Cronenworth for 2024 AT 2B and see if he can rebuild some value ... see if Merrill is the prospect hoped for ... determine if they can (or want to) re-sign Kim which is no guarantee if he has a good season and commands a big long deal ($18MM AAV) from SF. Fair chance the Padres do not want any new big long term deals so as not to crimp their payroll flexibility as the roster evolves in the next few years. If they did, more likely the try the ATL route and sign a Merrill, Snelling, and such in their 1st-2nd season long term but at what is presumed a bargain AAV.
I'm all for this for position players...pitchers just too risky IMO.
I would wait till closer to Arb on the arms...
#1190 · December 29, 2023, 12:22 pm
Quote from MrPadre19 on December 29, 2023, 11:45 amQuote from fenn68 on December 29, 2023, 10:24 amI just can't see any team wanting to take Cronenworth at age 30 with a 7 year contract at an $11.4MM AAV considering in his 4 years his wRC+ has dropped from 126 -> 117 -> 110 -> 92 and below ML average while actually giving anything of quality back. Better chance getting a similar set of 2B over that timeframe for a lot less ... it is only a 2B.
Still think the best route is to keep Cronenworth for 2024 AT 2B and see if he can rebuild some value ... see if Merrill is the prospect hoped for ... determine if they can (or want to) re-sign Kim which is no guarantee if he has a good season and commands a big long deal ($18MM AAV) from SF. Fair chance the Padres do not want any new big long term deals so as not to crimp their payroll flexibility as the roster evolves in the next few years. If they did, more likely the try the ATL route and sign a Merrill, Snelling, and such in their 1st-2nd season long term but at what is presumed a bargain AAV.
I'm all for this for position players...pitchers just too risky IMO.
I would wait till closer to Arb on the arms...
Agree safer with hitters than pitchers. Somewhat a situational call … if they are only trying to lock in numbers for the remaining control years and just add a couple of FA years. Not likely to see a Tatis type extension.
Of course the Cronenworth deal may make them more cautions … but part of his problem was that he already was in his late 20s and on a decline.