Quote from 3fingersplit on December 21, 2019, 10:32 am

neither one...this is the National League and defense matters

Quote from MrPadre19 on December 21, 2019, 11:42 am

All this talk of Lindor but all things being equal wouldn't we be better off with Bryant?

If he’s ruled to have 2 years remaining(probable) his cost and offensive output are very similar to Lindor but he could play LF and we wouldn’t have to move Tatis.

Wouldn't we be better off with Bryant in LF and Pham in RF rather than Lindor at SS and Tatis in CF?

 

 

Quote from JasonE135 on December 21, 2019, 12:50 pm

Quote from MrPadre19 on December 21, 2019, 11:42 am

All this talk of Lindor but all things being equal wouldn't we be better off with Bryant?

If he’s ruled to have 2 years remaining(probable) his cost and offensive output are very similar to Lindor but he could play LF and we wouldn’t have to move Tatis.

Wouldn't we be better off with Bryant in LF and Pham in RF rather than Lindor at SS and Tatis in CF?

 

 

Yes we absolutely would be better off with Bryant Mr. P. The problem is that people love to dream. Lindor is basically the ideal shortstop. 5-tool. Switch-hitter, great hitter with great power, 20-SB speed and GG defense and a plus arm. Also, many people can’t get over the fact that Tatis is 6’3”. They think he is too tall for SS. They think that nobody over 6’0” tall can have the quickness or agility to be a GG SS. They forget that there are tons of SS who are 6’2”. So they like to dream of throwing Tatis into CF where his speed and cannon arm would make him close to ideal. They forget that it would be incredibly hard to just learn a new position at the ml level. On an ideal team, Mike Trout would play left field because of his average arm and less than 70-grade defense. People love to dream of perfection. It won’t happen, but whatever.

Bryant is somewhat of an imperfect fit as well. I believe Tommy Pham is restricted to LF because of his weak, and now injured arm. That may force Bryant to RF where his strong arm is a fit but his defense may not be.

Quote from Brian Connelly on December 21, 2019, 1:54 pm

All the OF talk seems like a good time to post this...

While I like the Pham for Renfroe trade, Renfroe was in my mind a "pure", "ideal" RF; huge arm, mobile enough, power bat.  I feel like now Padres have about 17 guys where they profile much better in LF than RF (not unusual in general), including both Pham & Myers.  Myers to RF IS --sort of-- another position switch.  Not as ridiculous as CF or 3B, but he's definitely not as good in RF as LF.

Led me to compile this to see what the future holds in the OF, esp RF:

Name                   Age @1/1            MLB               AAA               AA          CF           RF (Arm)?              

Grisham (L)         23                          156               134               571        Yes         “Fringe-Below Avg”(50-45)

Cordero (L)         25                          246                476               245        Yes         Yes Above Avg (55)

Naylor (L)            22                          253                 223             657        NO         Maybe? Avg ?

Olivares               23                          0                     0                   488        Yes         YES Plus (60)

Trammell (L)       22                          0                   0                    436        Yes        NO Below Avg (45)

Ona                       23                          0                     0                   89           NO         Yes Above Avg (55)

The thing that jumps out is that Trammell is a definite "No" in RF or maybe even CF with his arm, AND Grisham sounds only slightly better in that regard.  Ona & possibly Naylor might be OK arm-wise for RF, but their mobility/athleticism is highly questionable.  Leaves Cordero & Olivares as the obvious "near future long term" options in RF.  Cordero developing into an everyday player or at least heavy side of a platoon would be ideal.  Olivares gets talked about the least, but he's really underrated & will be a valuable at least 4th OF in MLB.  The "too heavily RH" top 4 in OF beginning of season last year will soon be a thing of the past too... Pham 2 yrs then FA, and don't expect Myers & Margot to be around in say 2022.

Quote from fenn68 on December 21, 2019, 2:36 pm

Quote from Brian Connelly on December 21, 2019, 1:54 pm

All the OF talk seems like a good time to post this...

While I like the Pham for Renfroe trade, Renfroe was in my mind a "pure", "ideal" RF; huge arm, mobile enough, power bat.  I feel like now Padres have about 17 guys where they profile much better in LF than RF (not unusual in general), including both Pham & Myers.  Myers to RF IS --sort of-- another position switch.  Not as ridiculous as CF or 3B, but he's definitely not as good in RF as LF.

Led me to compile this to see what the future holds in the OF, esp RF:

Name                   Age @1/1            MLB               AAA               AA          CF           RF (Arm)?              

Grisham (L)         23                          156               134               571        Yes         “Fringe-Below Avg”(50-45)

Cordero (L)         25                          246                476               245        Yes         Yes Above Avg (55)

Naylor (L)            22                          253                 223             657        NO         Maybe? Avg ?

Olivares               23                          0                     0                   488        Yes         YES Plus (60)

Trammell (L)       22                          0                   0                    436        Yes        NO Below Avg (45)

Ona                       23                          0                     0                   89           NO         Yes Above Avg (55)

The thing that jumps out is that Trammell is a definite "No" in RF or maybe even CF with his arm, AND Grisham sounds only slightly better in that regard.  Ona & possibly Naylor might be OK arm-wise for RF, but their mobility/athleticism is highly questionable.  Leaves Cordero & Olivares as the obvious "near future long term" options in RF.  Cordero developing into an everyday player or at least heavy side of a platoon would be ideal.  Olivares gets talked about the least, but he's really underrated & will be a valuable at least 4th OF in MLB.  The "too heavily RH" top 4 in OF beginning of season last year will soon be a thing of the past too... Pham 2 yrs then FA, and don't expect Myers & Margot to be around in say 2022.

Good summary.

Clearly a lot of defensive shortcomings in the options ... so probably whomever develops best as a hitter gets the first shot.

In the short run Pham for 2 years and Myers for 3 years (maybe) buys some time for one of the others to emerge. I guess we should also look carefully at CF with only Margot legit defensively ... others may have speed and have played CF but are not considered defensively a plus in CF (maybe Oliveras works).

Now - trade deadline - next winter maybe we should be keeping an eye out for trade in for a legit CF or RF (ML ready or even a quality prospect). Padres will have pitching to trade as a large number of the better pitching prospects start of cluster at (or near) the ML level.

Quote from onlypads on December 21, 2019, 9:54 pm

Keuchel is off the board.  White Sox 3/55.

Quote from Henry Silvestre on December 22, 2019, 4:16 am

Quote from fenn68 on December 21, 2019, 2:36 pm

Quote from Brian Connelly on December 21, 2019, 1:54 pm

All the OF talk seems like a good time to post this...

While I like the Pham for Renfroe trade, Renfroe was in my mind a "pure", "ideal" RF; huge arm, mobile enough, power bat.  I feel like now Padres have about 17 guys where they profile much better in LF than RF (not unusual in general), including both Pham & Myers.  Myers to RF IS --sort of-- another position switch.  Not as ridiculous as CF or 3B, but he's definitely not as good in RF as LF.

Led me to compile this to see what the future holds in the OF, esp RF:

Name                   Age @1/1            MLB               AAA               AA          CF           RF (Arm)?              

Grisham (L)         23                          156               134               571        Yes         “Fringe-Below Avg”(50-45)

Cordero (L)         25                          246                476               245        Yes         Yes Above Avg (55)

Naylor (L)            22                          253                 223             657        NO         Maybe? Avg ?

Olivares               23                          0                     0                   488        Yes         YES Plus (60)

Trammell (L)       22                          0                   0                    436        Yes        NO Below Avg (45)

Ona                       23                          0                     0                   89           NO         Yes Above Avg (55)

The thing that jumps out is that Trammell is a definite "No" in RF or maybe even CF with his arm, AND Grisham sounds only slightly better in that regard.  Ona & possibly Naylor might be OK arm-wise for RF, but their mobility/athleticism is highly questionable.  Leaves Cordero & Olivares as the obvious "near future long term" options in RF.  Cordero developing into an everyday player or at least heavy side of a platoon would be ideal.  Olivares gets talked about the least, but he's really underrated & will be a valuable at least 4th OF in MLB.  The "too heavily RH" top 4 in OF beginning of season last year will soon be a thing of the past too... Pham 2 yrs then FA, and don't expect Myers & Margot to be around in say 2022.

Good summary.

Clearly a lot of defensive shortcomings in the options ... so probably whomever develops best as a hitter gets the first shot.

In the short run Pham for 2 years and Myers for 3 years (maybe) buys some time for one of the others to emerge. I guess we should also look carefully at CF with only Margot legit defensively ... others may have speed and have played CF but are not considered defensively a plus in CF (maybe Oliveras works).

Now - trade deadline - next winter maybe we should be keeping an eye out for trade in for a legit CF or RF (ML ready or even a quality prospect). Padres will have pitching to trade as a large number of the better pitching prospects start of cluster at (or near) the ML level.

Our CFer of the Future will be HEAD who should end up in LE bynthe end of 2020 if all goes well... AND lots of Mocks have us taking UCLA Mitchell (an excellent defender/offensive player) at #8.... Both should be ready for 2022

Quote from fenn68 on December 22, 2019, 4:45 am

Quote from Henry Silvestre on December 22, 2019, 4:16 am

Quote from fenn68 on December 21, 2019, 2:36 pm

Quote from Brian Connelly on December 21, 2019, 1:54 pm

All the OF talk seems like a good time to post this...

While I like the Pham for Renfroe trade, Renfroe was in my mind a "pure", "ideal" RF; huge arm, mobile enough, power bat.  I feel like now Padres have about 17 guys where they profile much better in LF than RF (not unusual in general), including both Pham & Myers.  Myers to RF IS --sort of-- another position switch.  Not as ridiculous as CF or 3B, but he's definitely not as good in RF as LF.

Led me to compile this to see what the future holds in the OF, esp RF:

Name                   Age @1/1            MLB               AAA               AA          CF           RF (Arm)?              

Grisham (L)         23                          156               134               571        Yes         “Fringe-Below Avg”(50-45)

Cordero (L)         25                          246                476               245        Yes         Yes Above Avg (55)

Naylor (L)            22                          253                 223             657        NO         Maybe? Avg ?

Olivares               23                          0                     0                   488        Yes         YES Plus (60)

Trammell (L)       22                          0                   0                    436        Yes        NO Below Avg (45)

Ona                       23                          0                     0                   89           NO         Yes Above Avg (55)

The thing that jumps out is that Trammell is a definite "No" in RF or maybe even CF with his arm, AND Grisham sounds only slightly better in that regard.  Ona & possibly Naylor might be OK arm-wise for RF, but their mobility/athleticism is highly questionable.  Leaves Cordero & Olivares as the obvious "near future long term" options in RF.  Cordero developing into an everyday player or at least heavy side of a platoon would be ideal.  Olivares gets talked about the least, but he's really underrated & will be a valuable at least 4th OF in MLB.  The "too heavily RH" top 4 in OF beginning of season last year will soon be a thing of the past too... Pham 2 yrs then FA, and don't expect Myers & Margot to be around in say 2022.

Good summary.

Clearly a lot of defensive shortcomings in the options ... so probably whomever develops best as a hitter gets the first shot.

In the short run Pham for 2 years and Myers for 3 years (maybe) buys some time for one of the others to emerge. I guess we should also look carefully at CF with only Margot legit defensively ... others may have speed and have played CF but are not considered defensively a plus in CF (maybe Oliveras works).

Now - trade deadline - next winter maybe we should be keeping an eye out for trade in for a legit CF or RF (ML ready or even a quality prospect). Padres will have pitching to trade as a large number of the better pitching prospects start of cluster at (or near) the ML level.

Our CFer of the Future will be HEAD who should end up in LE bynthe end of 2020 if all goes well... AND lots of Mocks have us taking UCLA Mitchell (an excellent defender/offensive player) at #8.... Both should be ready for 2022

Don't forget the potential of Abrams converted to CF ... especially if Arias and / or Marcano develop into legit 2B options.

Quote from fenn68 on December 22, 2019, 5:23 am

Garcia just signs as a FA for $20MM/2 years (AAV $10MM). Basically the first corner OF signing of note with Castellanos, Ozuna, Puig, Calhoun, and Dickerson still on the market. Seems as though corner OF are not in high demand in the market ... at least compared to pitching and other positions.

Good for the Padres in the trade market, I guess, if demand is for pitching (Padres have pitching to deal) and may need corner OF. On the other hand, Myers market value is somewhere below zero given the lack of demand. Consider 2019 WAR / wRC+ for the following:

3.0 / 119 ... Marte (trade target)

2.8 / 121 ... Castellanos

2.6 / 110 ... Ozuna

2.5 / 108 .. Calhoun (L)

1.8 / 112 ... Garcia ($10MM AAV / 2 years)

1.3 / 114 ... Nimmo (L) (trade target) ... 1/2 season due to injury

1.2 / 101 ... Puig

1.0 / 127 ... Dickerson (L) ... 1/2 season due to injury

0.5 /  96 ... Myers ($20MM AAV / 3 years)

Given those FA on the market ... all who preformed better than Myers and all who will likely sign lesser deals if Garcia's is any benchmark ... moving Myers (and his contract even in part) is unlikely. A team more likely take a chance on a low end league minimum option to produce a 96 wRC+ rather than take the risk (and money) for Myers.

However those same market dynamics may be depressing the FA price of Dickerson (who some seem concerned about his health) and with Calhoun as the other LHH option .. maybe Dickerson can be had on a 1 year deal as a part-time LHH option. If the Padres want to make progress in 2020 ... can't be all that confident that their young LHH options will deliver in the ML ... Naylor, Cordero, Grisham, Trammell all potentially could need more AAA time  and will not "know" that until the end of ST. Dickerson would provide some proven veteran production to use with Myers / Pham in the corners. Add that Cordero or Grisham could first be the LHH pairing with Margot in CF.

Kinsler's roster spot (and some of his money) should be available unless the opt for Stammen to bolster the pen.