Quote from BoosterSD on November 28, 2019, 7:12 pm

Just a FYI, ATL didnt trade for Maddux, they signed him as a FA from the CHC. They got Smoltz via trade from DET he wasnt drafted by ATL. They did draft Glavine and Avery. So ATL used 3 different ways to get their SP rotation that they rode for years. The money is just higher now via FA, and as you have said yourself, prospects are viewed differently now. I would bet a beer that DET wouldnt even make the Smoltz trade at this time.

Quote from TatisJr on November 28, 2019, 7:16 pm

Quote from JasonE135 on November 28, 2019, 6:50 pm

Quote from David Nevin on November 28, 2019, 6:18 pm

Quote from BoosterSD on November 28, 2019, 4:10 pm

MrP, I think I would prefer adding in a couple of additional level prospects as mentioned by Fenn, and having DET take all the Myers money.

More?.....Sure.

Better?.....Not me.
But if it was a definite that Strasburg would be ours that could make the difference.

So it  matters more “who” we are saving the money for.

I’m not losing Gore/Abrams/Patino/Trammell/Edwards just for the luxury of losing Myers.

“If” Strasburg has already put pen to paper and the only caveat is we have to move Myers......I could handle losing Myers and any number of guys not listed.

But to lose any of these guys just to save money and then not end up with Cole or Strasburg....or Rendon,doesn’t do anything for me.

 

 

1. I must again agree with Mr. P. Teams are built through the draft, with prospects. Atlanta already had Smoltz, Glavine and Avery before they signed Maddux. We have one guy currently who may turn out to be in that class of pitcher: Paddack. Gore is close to a sure thing, but not a true sure thing because he is a prospect. Patino is pretty close to a sure thing. What if Gore gets hurt or doesn't turn out? We will sure wish we had Patino. You don't trade likely or even possible stars to get rid of money. You hold on to them like your life depends on it, because that are what great teams are made from.
2. Atlanta ruled mlb with teams built on great pitching. The had Smoltz, Glavine and Avery homegrown before they traded for Maddux. We have our Avery in Chris Paddack. Glavine is knocking on the door and his name is Gore. Do we trade our Smoltz for salary relief? Where would the Braves have been if they had done that? Let's grow our big three first, THEN trade for our Maddux. Myers salary is nothing compared to the six years of essentially free possibly premium pitching we may get from Patino.

I’d argue we currently have four arms Paddack, Lamet, Gore and Patino that could reach ace status.

Quote from BoosterSD on November 28, 2019, 7:17 pm

Quote from David Nevin on November 28, 2019, 6:18 pm

Quote from BoosterSD on November 28, 2019, 4:10 pm

MrP, I think I would prefer adding in a couple of additional level prospects as mentioned by Fenn, and having DET take all the Myers money.

More?.....Sure.

Better?.....Not me.
But if it was a definite that Strasburg would be ours that could make the difference.

So it  matters more “who” we are saving the money for.

I’m not losing Gore/Abrams/Patino/Trammell/Edwards just for the luxury of losing Myers.

“If” Strasburg has already put pen to paper and the only caveat is we have to move Myers......I could handle losing Myers and any number of guys not listed.

But to lose any of these guys just to save money and then not end up with Cole or Strasburg....or Rendon,doesn’t do anything for me.

 

 

I never said better, I just said more of the level of prospect that Fenn had mentioned. Fenn I believe, is suggesting that due to the lack of talent in the DET system, that SD could get them to take the quantity over quality type trade. With that said, that "quantity" even though it wont be our top shelf prospects, are still very good prospects compared to other systems.

So as Fenn suggested, simply more from a list of guys like these Allen, Naylor, Cordero, Olivera, Quantrill, Bolanos. Lawson,

Quote from JasonE135 on November 28, 2019, 8:00 pm

Quote from BoosterSD on November 28, 2019, 7:12 pm

Just a FYI, ATL didnt trade for Maddux, they signed him as a FA from the CHC. They got Smoltz via trade from DET he wasnt drafted by ATL. They did draft Glavine and Avery. So ATL used 3 different ways to get their SP rotation that they rode for years. The money is just higher now via FA, and as you have said yourself, prospects are viewed differently now. I would bet a beer that DET wouldnt even make the Smoltz trade at this time.

I couldn't remember if they signed or traded for Maddux. So they signed him. My point was that all three of the others were prospects in the Brave's system. Yes they traded for Smoltz, but they did it when he was still a minor leaguer, a question mark. Like we did with Paddack. So Paddack is our Smoltz. Patino and Gore are Glavine and Avery. Whatever. The point is that you build a great rotation mostly through the draft. You have to build 80% of your team with prospects. Major League trades or signings are used to fill in the final pieces. We are not at the final pieces yet. We have 1 or 2 keeper pieces for our rotation. We still need at least 2 more before we sign an ACE. Trading big time prospects is what the Yankees and Red Sox did. Teams like us need them to build with. Even the Yankees are building with prospects now. Prospects are worth more than anything else in today's game. They are worth more than stars because you have to PAY stars. Trade our secondary prospects. Let's keep our future stars.

Quote from BoosterSD on November 28, 2019, 8:44 pm

I didnt say not to keep the future stars, I said trade mid level prospects. And I think if you go back and look at even the late 90s NYY teams, only about 40-60% were home grown. The others were smart trades and FA signings.

And I get building through the draft, and signing FA stars when your close. However, if you look at next years FA SP options, they are not good. They are not going to be what we need. So, IF I can get a Stras or Cole now, when they are available, you at least have to do your due diligence and see if you can make it work a year early money wise.

That is why IMO it is so important to trade away all of Myers salary if possible using prospects such as Allen, Naylor, Cordero, Olivera, Quantrill, Bolanos, Lawson as Fenn suggested. Yes, if I can get rid of all of Myers salary I would include Quantrill in a heartbeat, if it means I can get Stras.

Quote from MrPadre19 on November 29, 2019, 3:36 am

Quote from BoosterSD on November 28, 2019, 7:17 pm

Quote from David Nevin on November 28, 2019, 6:18 pm

Quote from BoosterSD on November 28, 2019, 4:10 pm

MrP, I think I would prefer adding in a couple of additional level prospects as mentioned by Fenn, and having DET take all the Myers money.

More?.....Sure.

Better?.....Not me.
But if it was a definite that Strasburg would be ours that could make the difference.

So it  matters more “who” we are saving the money for.

I’m not losing Gore/Abrams/Patino/Trammell/Edwards just for the luxury of losing Myers.

“If” Strasburg has already put pen to paper and the only caveat is we have to move Myers......I could handle losing Myers and any number of guys not listed.

But to lose any of these guys just to save money and then not end up with Cole or Strasburg....or Rendon,doesn’t do anything for me.

 

 

I never said better, I just said more of the level of prospect that Fenn had mentioned. Fenn I believe, is suggesting that due to the lack of talent in the DET system, that SD could get them to take the quantity over quality type trade. With that said, that "quantity" even though it wont be our top shelf prospects, are still very good prospects compared to other systems.

So as Fenn suggested, simply more from a list of guys like these Allen, Naylor, Cordero, Olivera, Quantrill, Bolanos. Lawson,

I realize that....I was agreeing with you that if it is ‘more” fine,but not better.

 

Quote from Henry Silvestre on November 29, 2019, 5:28 am

Seattle has 3 pieces I would find intriguing In Haniger + Dee Gordon 2B and Marco Ginzalez (200ip in 19 inning eater..

Wonder if we can match up somehow for 1 or more of these guys while shipping Myers north (remeber Seattle inquired about Leake for Myers last off-season)..

Quote from Henry Silvestre on November 29, 2019, 5:41 am

But yeah on my Patino for Myers dump scenario it was contingent on Stras or Cole ink dried on a contract 1st..

And yes BIRD in hand is bwtter than 2 in the Bush especially if said bird is a RARE TOR bird.. Odds are against Paddack /Patino and Gore all working out, they are even worse odds on any one of them becoming even Wheeler let alone Cole or Stras.. I mean it took Stras literally a decade to go from good P to historical excellent post season TOR..and Stras was perhaps the highest rated prospect pitching wise of all time... Sooooo Bird in hand baby!

Quote from fenn68 on November 29, 2019, 6:54 am

Quote from Henry Silvestre on November 29, 2019, 5:28 am

Seattle has 3 pieces I would find intriguing In Haniger + Dee Gordon 2B and Marco Ginzalez (200ip in 19 inning eater..

Wonder if we can match up somehow for 1 or more of these guys while shipping Myers north (remeber Seattle inquired about Leake for Myers last off-season)..

Padres would have to add a ton of prospects to go with Myers heading to Seattle ... that $61MM owed to him is not something Seattle is looking to take on at this point.

Haniger and Gonzalez are low cost / longer control pieces ... not much incentive to deal either one.

Gordon only has one more year (at about $13MM) ... plus another year at about the same amount IF he gets 600 PA. Given his recent injury history and Seattle’s ability to manage his PA (he had around 400 in 2019) he likely will go FA after 2020.

More likely they would trade Gordon for prospects just to clear that $13MM. Gordon past is a bit more that his recent performance ... basically has dropped to a below average hitter (wRC+) and maybe a 1 WAR type. Padres would be better off going after Villar.

So, a deal of Myers to Seattle would still follow the same model as with Detroit, et al and require including prospects. Side: if the Padres took 3B Seager may be different but no one wants him at his contract plus he is a 3B only.

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