Quote from Henry Silvestre on December 28, 2019, 7:16 pm

Quote from JasonE135 on December 28, 2019, 6:35 pm

I don’t get it. Why no love for Patino here? The way Braves fans and FO value/talk about Ian Anderson would make you think he is Cy Young or Randy Johnson. Do you know who is right in front of him on the top 100 list? That’s right, Patino. I can see why everyone has fallen in love with Clevinger: he is young, he is still relatively cheap and he has absolutely wicked stuff. But come on! 3 top pitching prospects, a valuable young catcher and Naylor for him? I can guarantee that those 5 guys will give you double the WAR over the lives of their control than Clevinger will, AT THE MINIMUM! More likely they will provide at least 3-4 times the WAR. Patino alone could turn out to be as good as Clevinger on his own, except he has twice as much control.

Get off of Clevinger. He is the flavor of the month. He has wicked stuff that looks awesome on video. Morejon was the top intl. prospect in the year we signed him. Quantrill would have been a top 3 choice in his draft if he hadn’t had TJ surgery. Patino is a better prospect than Dustin May, who everyone wants in any trade with LA. We have ABSOLUTELY HUGE, TITANIC, DYNAMIC pitching in our system. Let’s not toss it all overboard just because we have so much of it.

There are huge stars available for trade everywhere. Why do you think that none of them have been traded? Because they are not worth the prices that they used to be(and that their teams are still asking for). When was the last time that a Betts, Lindor, Bryant, Clevinger, Merrifield and Arenaudo were all available for trade in the same offseason? Never. It’s because those teams are behind the times. Their players used to be worth huge amounts. They are not anymore. Let’s not buck the trend and overpay.

In this new market prospects are gold. Here, WE have what everybody wants. You want a trade suggestion? How about Clevinger and Lidor for Gore alone? No? Maybe Clevinger and Hand. If not, fine, keep walking.

We need to trade prospects LOTS of them over the next 3 seasons. Otherwise we wont have room for them... Also where does Morejon for in? Q? Patino? Gore? Baez? Thats 5 SP ready or soon to be MLB ready.. What do you do with Paddack? Lamet? Lucchesi? Davies? When these "younger BETTER prospects" are ready? What happens a year from now when Espinoza /Avila /Weathers /Bolanos/Lawson / Cantillo and company are ready? How about 2 yrs fromnnow when another wave of highly regarded Pitchers develops into the next Paddack/Lamet/Patino/Cantillo etc... You NEED TO KNOW WHEN TO HOLD THEM WHEN TO FOLD THEM WHEN TO WALK AWAY AND KNOW WHEN TO RUN... Chances are ONE or maybe if we are lucky Two of these guys become reliable 1 2 or 3 tyoe SP.. If you can get Clevenger for Patino + Q and Morejon YOU DO IT.. Chances are 2 of those 3 won't make it and the one that does becomes no better than Wheeler (if all goes right) Clevinger is one of the best 10 SP in baseball. I doubt any of these guys will be that anytime soon and if they do make it it will be like bybtge time they are 27 or 28 and have established themselves as such.. Bird in hand man... And with 3 years of control

Quote from JasonE135 on December 28, 2019, 7:39 pm

What is more likely Henry, winning the World Series this year or 3 years from now? This year will be Tatis, Quantrill and Paddack’s 2nd year and Gore and Patino’s first. That’s 4/5th of our great rotation(not including Lamet, who will be in his first full year back from TJ surgery). Do you expect us to be great in all of our future star’s first and second years?

Our best chance to compete is 2 years from now, when Tatis is fully settled in and Gore, Paddack, Lamet and Patino(or maybe just 2 of the 4) are pitching like Aces and we have guys like Quantrill, Morejon, Baez, Bolanos etc., etc. to fill in whichever of the final 3 spots the first 4 didn’t manage to fill. BTW, 3 years from now Clevinger will be gone while everyone else is still here.

We will not be competing for the World Series this year. If we don’t trade all of our awesome prospects, then in 2 or 3 years we could be.

You listed 15 young pitchers or pitching prospects in your post Henry. You said few of them will turn out. Maybe we should give them all a chance and see who turns out? I bet AT LEAST 2 of the 15 will give us ACE results. Having 5 of the 15 being above average is more likely than not. Trading 3 possible ACE quality pitchers for 1 ACE with half the control of any 1 of the 3 is a terrible deal. If 1 of the 3 turns out to be an ACE, that 1 alone will give the Indians twice the WAR value as Clevinger will give us on his own. The other 2 will give them SOME value. As I said, the very best outcome we could possibly hope for out of your trade is to get half as much WAR value back as what we traded away. AT BEST. HALF VALUE. Maybe that is why there are so many stars and super stars still just sitting around on the market with nobody meeting their price?

Quote from 3fingersplit on December 28, 2019, 9:55 pm

Quote from Henry Silvestre on December 28, 2019, 7:16 pm

Quote from JasonE135 on December 28, 2019, 6:35 pm

I don’t get it. Why no love for Patino here? The way Braves fans and FO value/talk about Ian Anderson would make you think he is Cy Young or Randy Johnson. Do you know who is right in front of him on the top 100 list? That’s right, Patino. I can see why everyone has fallen in love with Clevinger: he is young, he is still relatively cheap and he has absolutely wicked stuff. But come on! 3 top pitching prospects, a valuable young catcher and Naylor for him? I can guarantee that those 5 guys will give you double the WAR over the lives of their control than Clevinger will, AT THE MINIMUM! More likely they will provide at least 3-4 times the WAR. Patino alone could turn out to be as good as Clevinger on his own, except he has twice as much control.

Get off of Clevinger. He is the flavor of the month. He has wicked stuff that looks awesome on video. Morejon was the top intl. prospect in the year we signed him. Quantrill would have been a top 3 choice in his draft if he hadn’t had TJ surgery. Patino is a better prospect than Dustin May, who everyone wants in any trade with LA. We have ABSOLUTELY HUGE, TITANIC, DYNAMIC pitching in our system. Let’s not toss it all overboard just because we have so much of it.

There are huge stars available for trade everywhere. Why do you think that none of them have been traded? Because they are not worth the prices that they used to be(and that their teams are still asking for). When was the last time that a Betts, Lindor, Bryant, Clevinger, Merrifield and Arenaudo were all available for trade in the same offseason? Never. It’s because those teams are behind the times. Their players used to be worth huge amounts. They are not anymore. Let’s not buck the trend and overpay.

In this new market prospects are gold. Here, WE have what everybody wants. You want a trade suggestion? How about Clevinger and Lidor for Gore alone? No? Maybe Clevinger and Hand. If not, fine, keep walking.

We need to trade prospects LOTS of them over the next 3 seasons. Otherwise we wont have room for them... Also where does Morejon for in? Q? Patino? Gore? Baez? Thats 5 SP ready or soon to be MLB ready.. What do you do with Paddack? Lamet? Lucchesi? Davies? When these "younger BETTER prospects" are ready? What happens a year from now when Espinoza /Avila /Weathers /Bolanos/Lawson / Cantillo and company are ready? How about 2 yrs fromnnow when another wave of highly regarded Pitchers develops into the next Paddack/Lamet/Patino/Cantillo etc... You NEED TO KNOW WHEN TO HOLD THEM WHEN TO FOLD THEM WHEN TO WALK AWAY AND KNOW WHEN TO RUN... Chances are ONE or maybe if we are lucky Two of these guys become reliable 1 2 or 3 tyoe SP.. If you can get Clevenger for Patino + Q and Morejon YOU DO IT.. Chances are 2 of those 3 won't make it and the one that does becomes no better than Wheeler (if all goes right) Clevinger is one of the best 10 SP in baseball. I doubt any of these guys will be that anytime soon and if they do make it it will be like bybtge time they are 27 or 28 and have established themselves as such.. Bird in hand man... And with 3 years of control

 

Quote from Henry Silvestre on December 28, 2019, 7:16 pm

Quote from JasonE135 on December 28, 2019, 6:35 pm

I don’t get it. Why no love for Patino here? The way Braves fans and FO value/talk about Ian Anderson would make you think he is Cy Young or Randy Johnson. Do you know who is right in front of him on the top 100 list? That’s right, Patino. I can see why everyone has fallen in love with Clevinger: he is young, he is still relatively cheap and he has absolutely wicked stuff. But come on! 3 top pitching prospects, a valuable young catcher and Naylor for him? I can guarantee that those 5 guys will give you double the WAR over the lives of their control than Clevinger will, AT THE MINIMUM! More likely they will provide at least 3-4 times the WAR. Patino alone could turn out to be as good as Clevinger on his own, except he has twice as much control.

Get off of Clevinger. He is the flavor of the month. He has wicked stuff that looks awesome on video. Morejon was the top intl. prospect in the year we signed him. Quantrill would have been a top 3 choice in his draft if he hadn’t had TJ surgery. Patino is a better prospect than Dustin May, who everyone wants in any trade with LA. We have ABSOLUTELY HUGE, TITANIC, DYNAMIC pitching in our system. Let’s not toss it all overboard just because we have so much of it.

There are huge stars available for trade everywhere. Why do you think that none of them have been traded? Because they are not worth the prices that they used to be(and that their teams are still asking for). When was the last time that a Betts, Lindor, Bryant, Clevinger, Merrifield and Arenaudo were all available for trade in the same offseason? Never. It’s because those teams are behind the times. Their players used to be worth huge amounts. They are not anymore. Let’s not buck the trend and overpay.

In this new market prospects are gold. Here, WE have what everybody wants. You want a trade suggestion? How about Clevinger and Lidor for Gore alone? No? Maybe Clevinger and Hand. If not, fine, keep walking.

We need to trade prospects LOTS of them over the next 3 seasons. Otherwise we wont have room for them... Also where does Morejon for in? Q? Patino? Gore? Baez? Thats 5 SP ready or soon to be MLB ready.. What do you do with Paddack? Lamet? Lucchesi? Davies? When these "younger BETTER prospects" are ready? What happens a year from now when Espinoza /Avila /Weathers /Bolanos/Lawson / Cantillo and company are ready? How about 2 yrs fromnnow when another wave of highly regarded Pitchers develops into the next Paddack/Lamet/Patino/Cantillo etc... You NEED TO KNOW WHEN TO HOLD THEM WHEN TO FOLD THEM WHEN TO WALK AWAY AND KNOW WHEN TO RUN... Chances are ONE or maybe if we are lucky Two of these guys become reliable 1 2 or 3 tyoe SP.. If you can get Clevenger for Patino + Q and Morejon YOU DO IT.. Chances are 2 of those 3 won't make it and the one that does becomes no better than Wheeler (if all goes right) Clevinger is one of the best 10 SP in baseball. I doubt any of these guys will be that anytime soon and if they do make it it will be like bybtge time they are 27 or 28 and have established themselves as such.. Bird in hand man... And with 3 years of control

At the rate you want to trade everybody the Padres will be out of prospects by March 1st, 2020 and hate to break it to you but Clevinger is not Verlander or Strasberg or Cole and actually may not even be Paddack.

With so many holes to fill.....2B, OF,C do you really think the Padres are even close to a WC this year ? Trade away everybody and see how long it takes to make the playoffs with journeyman / not 18 game difference guys.....you got Pham= BUST...less than 90 games this year

Having so many prospects is a problem that every MLB team would love to have and your whole idea of 4,5 or 6 for 1 trades is nothing short of a joke.....AJ would get fired yesterday if he did that

Quote from Henry Silvestre on December 29, 2019, 3:19 am

Quote from 3fingersplit on December 28, 2019, 9:55 pm

Quote from Henry Silvestre on December 28, 2019, 7:16 pm

Quote from JasonE135 on December 28, 2019, 6:35 pm

I don’t get it. Why no love for Patino here? The way Braves fans and FO value/talk about Ian Anderson would make you think he is Cy Young or Randy Johnson. Do you know who is right in front of him on the top 100 list? That’s right, Patino. I can see why everyone has fallen in love with Clevinger: he is young, he is still relatively cheap and he has absolutely wicked stuff. But come on! 3 top pitching prospects, a valuable young catcher and Naylor for him? I can guarantee that those 5 guys will give you double the WAR over the lives of their control than Clevinger will, AT THE MINIMUM! More likely they will provide at least 3-4 times the WAR. Patino alone could turn out to be as good as Clevinger on his own, except he has twice as much control.

Get off of Clevinger. He is the flavor of the month. He has wicked stuff that looks awesome on video. Morejon was the top intl. prospect in the year we signed him. Quantrill would have been a top 3 choice in his draft if he hadn’t had TJ surgery. Patino is a better prospect than Dustin May, who everyone wants in any trade with LA. We have ABSOLUTELY HUGE, TITANIC, DYNAMIC pitching in our system. Let’s not toss it all overboard just because we have so much of it.

There are huge stars available for trade everywhere. Why do you think that none of them have been traded? Because they are not worth the prices that they used to be(and that their teams are still asking for). When was the last time that a Betts, Lindor, Bryant, Clevinger, Merrifield and Arenaudo were all available for trade in the same offseason? Never. It’s because those teams are behind the times. Their players used to be worth huge amounts. They are not anymore. Let’s not buck the trend and overpay.

In this new market prospects are gold. Here, WE have what everybody wants. You want a trade suggestion? How about Clevinger and Lidor for Gore alone? No? Maybe Clevinger and Hand. If not, fine, keep walking.

We need to trade prospects LOTS of them over the next 3 seasons. Otherwise we wont have room for them... Also where does Morejon for in? Q? Patino? Gore? Baez? Thats 5 SP ready or soon to be MLB ready.. What do you do with Paddack? Lamet? Lucchesi? Davies? When these "younger BETTER prospects" are ready? What happens a year from now when Espinoza /Avila /Weathers /Bolanos/Lawson / Cantillo and company are ready? How about 2 yrs fromnnow when another wave of highly regarded Pitchers develops into the next Paddack/Lamet/Patino/Cantillo etc... You NEED TO KNOW WHEN TO HOLD THEM WHEN TO FOLD THEM WHEN TO WALK AWAY AND KNOW WHEN TO RUN... Chances are ONE or maybe if we are lucky Two of these guys become reliable 1 2 or 3 tyoe SP.. If you can get Clevenger for Patino + Q and Morejon YOU DO IT.. Chances are 2 of those 3 won't make it and the one that does becomes no better than Wheeler (if all goes right) Clevinger is one of the best 10 SP in baseball. I doubt any of these guys will be that anytime soon and if they do make it it will be like bybtge time they are 27 or 28 and have established themselves as such.. Bird in hand man... And with 3 years of control

 

Quote from Henry Silvestre on December 28, 2019, 7:16 pm

Quote from JasonE135 on December 28, 2019, 6:35 pm

I don’t get it. Why no love for Patino here? The way Braves fans and FO value/talk about Ian Anderson would make you think he is Cy Young or Randy Johnson. Do you know who is right in front of him on the top 100 list? That’s right, Patino. I can see why everyone has fallen in love with Clevinger: he is young, he is still relatively cheap and he has absolutely wicked stuff. But come on! 3 top pitching prospects, a valuable young catcher and Naylor for him? I can guarantee that those 5 guys will give you double the WAR over the lives of their control than Clevinger will, AT THE MINIMUM! More likely they will provide at least 3-4 times the WAR. Patino alone could turn out to be as good as Clevinger on his own, except he has twice as much control.

Get off of Clevinger. He is the flavor of the month. He has wicked stuff that looks awesome on video. Morejon was the top intl. prospect in the year we signed him. Quantrill would have been a top 3 choice in his draft if he hadn’t had TJ surgery. Patino is a better prospect than Dustin May, who everyone wants in any trade with LA. We have ABSOLUTELY HUGE, TITANIC, DYNAMIC pitching in our system. Let’s not toss it all overboard just because we have so much of it.

There are huge stars available for trade everywhere. Why do you think that none of them have been traded? Because they are not worth the prices that they used to be(and that their teams are still asking for). When was the last time that a Betts, Lindor, Bryant, Clevinger, Merrifield and Arenaudo were all available for trade in the same offseason? Never. It’s because those teams are behind the times. Their players used to be worth huge amounts. They are not anymore. Let’s not buck the trend and overpay.

In this new market prospects are gold. Here, WE have what everybody wants. You want a trade suggestion? How about Clevinger and Lidor for Gore alone? No? Maybe Clevinger and Hand. If not, fine, keep walking.

We need to trade prospects LOTS of them over the next 3 seasons. Otherwise we wont have room for them... Also where does Morejon for in? Q? Patino? Gore? Baez? Thats 5 SP ready or soon to be MLB ready.. What do you do with Paddack? Lamet? Lucchesi? Davies? When these "younger BETTER prospects" are ready? What happens a year from now when Espinoza /Avila /Weathers /Bolanos/Lawson / Cantillo and company are ready? How about 2 yrs fromnnow when another wave of highly regarded Pitchers develops into the next Paddack/Lamet/Patino/Cantillo etc... You NEED TO KNOW WHEN TO HOLD THEM WHEN TO FOLD THEM WHEN TO WALK AWAY AND KNOW WHEN TO RUN... Chances are ONE or maybe if we are lucky Two of these guys become reliable 1 2 or 3 tyoe SP.. If you can get Clevenger for Patino + Q and Morejon YOU DO IT.. Chances are 2 of those 3 won't make it and the one that does becomes no better than Wheeler (if all goes right) Clevinger is one of the best 10 SP in baseball. I doubt any of these guys will be that anytime soon and if they do make it it will be like bybtge time they are 27 or 28 and have established themselves as such.. Bird in hand man... And with 3 years of control

At the rate you want to trade everybody the Padres will be out of prospects by March 1st, 2020 and hate to break it to you but Clevinger is not Verlander or Strasberg or Cole and actually may not even be Paddack.

With so many holes to fill.....2B, OF,C do you really think the Padres are even close to a WC this year ? Trade away everybody and see how long it takes to make the playoffs with journeyman / not 18 game difference guys.....you got Pham= BUST...less than 90 games this year

Having so many prospects is a problem that every MLB team would love to have and your whole idea of 4,5 or 6 for 1 trades is nothing short of a joke.....AJ would get fired yesterday if he did that

So you hoard all of our prospects watch xome make it. Watch most flame out and lose value.. Not trade for any established MLB player.. And then after they are with us for 5 yrs DFA them so others can take them in Rule V .. Hmmmm nobody uses that strategy...but 👌

Quote from Henry Silvestre on December 29, 2019, 3:21 am

Quote from Henry Silvestre on December 29, 2019, 3:19 am

Quote from 3fingersplit on December 28, 2019, 9:55 pm

Quote from Henry Silvestre on December 28, 2019, 7:16 pm

Quote from JasonE135 on December 28, 2019, 6:35 pm

I don’t get it. Why no love for Patino here? The way Braves fans and FO value/talk about Ian Anderson would make you think he is Cy Young or Randy Johnson. Do you know who is right in front of him on the top 100 list? That’s right, Patino. I can see why everyone has fallen in love with Clevinger: he is young, he is still relatively cheap and he has absolutely wicked stuff. But come on! 3 top pitching prospects, a valuable young catcher and Naylor for him? I can guarantee that those 5 guys will give you double the WAR over the lives of their control than Clevinger will, AT THE MINIMUM! More likely they will provide at least 3-4 times the WAR. Patino alone could turn out to be as good as Clevinger on his own, except he has twice as much control.

Get off of Clevinger. He is the flavor of the month. He has wicked stuff that looks awesome on video. Morejon was the top intl. prospect in the year we signed him. Quantrill would have been a top 3 choice in his draft if he hadn’t had TJ surgery. Patino is a better prospect than Dustin May, who everyone wants in any trade with LA. We have ABSOLUTELY HUGE, TITANIC, DYNAMIC pitching in our system. Let’s not toss it all overboard just because we have so much of it.

There are huge stars available for trade everywhere. Why do you think that none of them have been traded? Because they are not worth the prices that they used to be(and that their teams are still asking for). When was the last time that a Betts, Lindor, Bryant, Clevinger, Merrifield and Arenaudo were all available for trade in the same offseason? Never. It’s because those teams are behind the times. Their players used to be worth huge amounts. They are not anymore. Let’s not buck the trend and overpay.

In this new market prospects are gold. Here, WE have what everybody wants. You want a trade suggestion? How about Clevinger and Lidor for Gore alone? No? Maybe Clevinger and Hand. If not, fine, keep walking.

We need to trade prospects LOTS of them over the next 3 seasons. Otherwise we wont have room for them... Also where does Morejon for in? Q? Patino? Gore? Baez? Thats 5 SP ready or soon to be MLB ready.. What do you do with Paddack? Lamet? Lucchesi? Davies? When these "younger BETTER prospects" are ready? What happens a year from now when Espinoza /Avila /Weathers /Bolanos/Lawson / Cantillo and company are ready? How about 2 yrs fromnnow when another wave of highly regarded Pitchers develops into the next Paddack/Lamet/Patino/Cantillo etc... You NEED TO KNOW WHEN TO HOLD THEM WHEN TO FOLD THEM WHEN TO WALK AWAY AND KNOW WHEN TO RUN... Chances are ONE or maybe if we are lucky Two of these guys become reliable 1 2 or 3 tyoe SP.. If you can get Clevenger for Patino + Q and Morejon YOU DO IT.. Chances are 2 of those 3 won't make it and the one that does becomes no better than Wheeler (if all goes right) Clevinger is one of the best 10 SP in baseball. I doubt any of these guys will be that anytime soon and if they do make it it will be like bybtge time they are 27 or 28 and have established themselves as such.. Bird in hand man... And with 3 years of control

 

Quote from Henry Silvestre on December 28, 2019, 7:16 pm

Quote from JasonE135 on December 28, 2019, 6:35 pm

I don’t get it. Why no love for Patino here? The way Braves fans and FO value/talk about Ian Anderson would make you think he is Cy Young or Randy Johnson. Do you know who is right in front of him on the top 100 list? That’s right, Patino. I can see why everyone has fallen in love with Clevinger: he is young, he is still relatively cheap and he has absolutely wicked stuff. But come on! 3 top pitching prospects, a valuable young catcher and Naylor for him? I can guarantee that those 5 guys will give you double the WAR over the lives of their control than Clevinger will, AT THE MINIMUM! More likely they will provide at least 3-4 times the WAR. Patino alone could turn out to be as good as Clevinger on his own, except he has twice as much control.

Get off of Clevinger. He is the flavor of the month. He has wicked stuff that looks awesome on video. Morejon was the top intl. prospect in the year we signed him. Quantrill would have been a top 3 choice in his draft if he hadn’t had TJ surgery. Patino is a better prospect than Dustin May, who everyone wants in any trade with LA. We have ABSOLUTELY HUGE, TITANIC, DYNAMIC pitching in our system. Let’s not toss it all overboard just because we have so much of it.

There are huge stars available for trade everywhere. Why do you think that none of them have been traded? Because they are not worth the prices that they used to be(and that their teams are still asking for). When was the last time that a Betts, Lindor, Bryant, Clevinger, Merrifield and Arenaudo were all available for trade in the same offseason? Never. It’s because those teams are behind the times. Their players used to be worth huge amounts. They are not anymore. Let’s not buck the trend and overpay.

In this new market prospects are gold. Here, WE have what everybody wants. You want a trade suggestion? How about Clevinger and Lidor for Gore alone? No? Maybe Clevinger and Hand. If not, fine, keep walking.

We need to trade prospects LOTS of them over the next 3 seasons. Otherwise we wont have room for them... Also where does Morejon for in? Q? Patino? Gore? Baez? Thats 5 SP ready or soon to be MLB ready.. What do you do with Paddack? Lamet? Lucchesi? Davies? When these "younger BETTER prospects" are ready? What happens a year from now when Espinoza /Avila /Weathers /Bolanos/Lawson / Cantillo and company are ready? How about 2 yrs fromnnow when another wave of highly regarded Pitchers develops into the next Paddack/Lamet/Patino/Cantillo etc... You NEED TO KNOW WHEN TO HOLD THEM WHEN TO FOLD THEM WHEN TO WALK AWAY AND KNOW WHEN TO RUN... Chances are ONE or maybe if we are lucky Two of these guys become reliable 1 2 or 3 tyoe SP.. If you can get Clevenger for Patino + Q and Morejon YOU DO IT.. Chances are 2 of those 3 won't make it and the one that does becomes no better than Wheeler (if all goes right) Clevinger is one of the best 10 SP in baseball. I doubt any of these guys will be that anytime soon and if they do make it it will be like bybtge time they are 27 or 28 and have established themselves as such.. Bird in hand man... And with 3 years of control

At the rate you want to trade everybody the Padres will be out of prospects by March 1st, 2020 and hate to break it to you but Clevinger is not Verlander or Strasberg or Cole and actually may not even be Paddack.

With so many holes to fill.....2B, OF,C do you really think the Padres are even close to a WC this year ? Trade away everybody and see how long it takes to make the playoffs with journeyman / not 18 game difference guys.....you got Pham= BUST...less than 90 games this year

Having so many prospects is a problem that every MLB team would love to have and your whole idea of 4,5 or 6 for 1 trades is nothing short of a joke.....AJ would get fired yesterday if he did that

So you hoard all of our prospects watch xome make it. Watch most flame out and lose value.. Not trade for any established MLB player.. And then after they are with us for 5 yrs DFA them so others can take them in Rule V .. Hmmmm nobody uses that strategy...but

As far as that oh they will out WAR Clevenger (COMBINED) would you tather have YELICH or Renfroe + Joey + Yates .. Because those 3 out WAR Yelich in 2019..?

Quote from Brian Connelly on December 29, 2019, 3:56 am

LOL, love it when it gets hot in here!

3 Finger... Ummm... Craig Kimbrel RP with a big salary... 4 for 1 with I think 2 top 100 MLB prospects (Margot & Guerra) at the time.   Multiple prospect for single player trades happen all the time; you make it sound like our Farm is so untouchable that there's no one in MLB worth doing this for?  Maybe I should have clarified that my proposal (Lamet, Patino, Campusano, Naylor, another lesser prospect) isn't where I would start... more my absolute ceiling; but what I was really getting at is...

Jason... you're right.  Teams DON'T trade those guys b/c they DON'T HAVE TO.  It has to be compelling for them to do so.  Pads would probably start with 2 (I'm specifically against ANY combo of 3) lesser SP like Quantrill and Baez or something, think it's the Indians who would rather save a little less $, shorter control, but the bigger upside of Lamet.   ESPECIALLY for Clevinger who's not that expensive.... look at what his worth would be on the open market:  20 MM AAV easily for: < 5 this year, maybe 8-10 next, 12-15 next?   30 MM excess value....   it's worth a lot.  Pads would be trading from their 2 deepest positions:  SP & C to improve their 2020-2022 rotation.  2019 Clevinger > 2019 Lamet (could be incredible SP, could be a late inning RP), top 100 MLB C prospect?  We have TWO top 50... their names are Mejia & Hedges.   Naylor expendable, prospect expendable.  It really comes down to Patino.  I'm NOT as high on him as many; I HOPE I'm wrong.  But his small stature scares me & makes me think of Espinoza & Morejon injury/max IP issues.  We also have another SP prospect who was Patino's current prospect rating #30 overall range last year... Michel Baez.    I believe you're right Pads have only 1 big move "left", but Myers' "value" is so low, think we're stuck with him which limits us to trading for lower $ value guys.   I would take 3 yrs Clevenger over 3-4 of Merrifield.  Don't see how to construct a trade for Merrifield without it costing at least Patino + a lot, which would be more damaging since not improving at SP.

Henry...  I do agree with you on one thing; Preller is going to have to deal some prospects just to capture value with our already tight & getting tighter 40-man roster.   And prospects do rise & fall in rankings and obviously don't all work out.  BUT you are over the top on your proposals... and that's coming from me who puts 4-5 for 1 trades out there...   Preller's 2015 whirlwind must have left a residual effect... he's NOT going to do that again; situation is totally different, and he's relying on some of these elite prospects being difference makers.  We have one more (LAST!?) top 10 draft pick this year.  In the range where we picked Spangenberg & Weathers.  After that, if competitive, even our 1st round guys in years to come lower in draft have lower odds of being difference makers.  The 2016 Massive Intl Buy can't recur.  Our system is still very good, and it is deep;  but it's way worse this year than last, and will be even more so next year even if Preller makes no more trades out (just from "graduations").  Can't just snap your fingers & rebuild a Farm....

Yes, closer to playoffs don't "care" about that (see: Red Sox)... but I feel like in the last few weeks everyone's lost their mind & not dealing with financial realities...  1 yr of Betts @ 27 MM?  Price?  Conforto?  Lindor?   Just can't afford any of these guys, let alone multiple...  and we're trying to make up 30+ games in standings vs a team that's still a juggernaut... if we make all the moves by trades you suggest, we could easily fall short & have nowhere to turn.

But I felt last year & again this year a 3 year(+) control TOR SP would be the single biggest beneficial piece to Pads... yes, a year (or 2 if last yr) early, but:  Eric Lauer O.D. starter in 2019, BARELY enough innings to go around even with all SP from O.D. on perfectly healthy with no missed starts.... all the proof I need.   NEXT year, even if we don't act this offseason, I don't think we'll "need" that 3 yr + TOR SP ... but I still don't believe you can win a World series with 5 young SP's all in their 1st, 2nd, 3rd year... Clevinger's career arc kind of proves my point:  Playoff teams don't "homegrow" their entire SP staff out of the Minors.

Quote from MrPadre19 on December 29, 2019, 4:49 am

I think the reason we haven’t made a huge deal is because Preller is going into all negotiations with the mind set that our #6-#10 prospects are the same as almost every other teams #1-#5.

So don’t ask about Gore/Patino/Abrams/Trammell/Campusano and start from there.

Fair or not that may be why nothings happened.

I’m starting to think I’d rather trade Patino than even Campusano.

Better chance some of our other SP prospects pan out than other Catchers and a future Catching tandem of Camp/Mejia intrigues me.

Guys like Campusano are rare.

 

 

 

Quote from fenn68 on December 29, 2019, 6:57 am

All prospects are not created equal and in that view I am guessing Preller is setting out in a special category the group of elite prospects ... ones he believes has legitimate potential to be the hard to find, All-Star types that the Padres need for their 6 control ML years (at low cost) if they want to build a sustained winner ... playoff team. Guessing that group includes Tatis - Paddack - Gore - Patino - Abrams - Campusano - maybe Arias. He needs these players as an elite base to add to ... not just replace for a short term benefit.

The next category is probably fair game for trades ... if the likes the trade target (may not be the same view as we have). He dealt Urias, Edwards, Logan Allen, and Austin Allen ... all good prospects with ML potential as starters but probably not elite. Likely Morejon, Baez, Lawson, et. al are in play for a trade .... if Preller likes the return.

I would not be surprised if Preller would prefer to deal players off the ML roster before SOME of the prospects. Some teams may actually prefer the ML ready for immediate impact that waiting / gambling on a prospect to develop. To that end he dealt Reyes, Renfroe, Lauer. With that concept ... Quantrill (maybe a #3 ceiling) and Lucchesi (bottom of the rotation) are desirable trade chips for a team needing immediate help while cleaning out space for the high ceiling prospects.

Reality this roster has delivered 3 straight 90+ loss seasons ... should be better but a lot of needs and things going right to make the playoffs. Preller walks the line of improving the short term results without selling out the future. He adds Davies (2 years to fill a SP need) and gets Grisham (high ceiling CF/LF potential) for Lauer (4 years as a #5) and Urias (top prospect but maybe not more than a steady regular). He adds Pham (2 years to convert to some OBP in the offense) and Cronenworth (potential as a LHH versatile INF) for Renfroe (4 control years but apparently not fitting the new view of enhanced OBP) and Edwards (top prospect but maybe his singles only profile does not move him to the elite category). He adds Trammell (high ceiling CF/LF potential) for Reyes (no defensive position in NL) and Logan Allen (maybe a #4-5 ceiling pitcher). He adds Profar (1 year "filler") for Austin Allen (hitting prospect by probably not a catcher). Could argue that he improved the short term roster AND improved the ceiling of prospects.

So what he has done ... and likely will try to continue to do ... is make incremental improvements by adding and subtracting from both the ML roster and the prospect lists. When (and that is not in 2020) the Padres are positioned with a high probability of legit contention then he may alter the trade strategy using better prospects for that last key piece.

Should note that there are 29 other teams that have not dealt for any of these mega names being bandied about ... some who would benefit more than the Padres by the short term add of the likes of Lindor, Clevenger, Betts, Marte .... clearly there is a mismatch of ask vs. perceived value across the entire league.

 

Quote from onlypads on December 29, 2019, 8:48 am

Quote from MrPadre19 on December 29, 2019, 4:49 am

I think the reason we haven’t made a huge deal is because Preller is going into all negotiations with the mind set that our #6-#10 prospects are the same as almost every other teams #1-#5.

So don’t ask about Gore/Patino/Abrams/Trammell/Campusano and start from there.

Fair or not that may be why nothings happened.

I’m starting to think I’d rather trade Patino than even Campusano.

Better chance some of our other SP prospects pan out than other Catchers and a future Catching tandem of Camp/Mejia intrigues me.

Guys like Campusano are rare.

 

 

That is interesting.  You guys know how high I am on Patino (best SP spec IMO), but yeah, that may be the outside the box type thinking that is needed to beat teams like LAD.

With that in mind I could maybe do Patino + L or Q ++ for Clev to gain certainty / immediacy.  Because of upside and roster needs, I would really try not to move TT, Arias, Mejia, Camp, Baez, Cronen, Grisham, and Abrams. I am never including Lamet or Paddack with Patino.  Absolutely willing to do a 6:1 to avoid Patino even if it includes (2x) SP like Richards / Weathers / Morejon.

If we sign Shogo, I think we have to take another look.