Quote from Jeremy Hill on October 1, 2023, 8:40 pm

Quote from Notmyopic on October 1, 2023, 6:27 pm

Quote from fenn68 on October 1, 2023, 8:22 am

Quote from WindsorUK on October 1, 2023, 7:57 am

I'd also like for management to come out in the next few days and say that Jake Cronenworth is our 2B next year( he cannot be at 1B again!)

Makes sense but not going to happen unless they trade Kim (and I don’t want that) or move him to CF (don’t see that happening). Bogaerts in just not moving off SS.

I guess the other issue is they don’t have a prototypical 1B ready in house … and given the need to spend on pitching not likely they spend on a 1B AND a DH. Not the best look but think the offense overall can cover Cronenworth at 1B.

———————

Although would not think Kim to CF is going to happen … just a pinch of appeal trying to replicate the move of Tatis to RF. Kim is athletic enough / fast enough with the work ethic to make that a successful transition. Hate to lose his INF defense but Cronenworth was a plus defensive 2B. Kim offense is vastly superior to Grisham … upgrades in CF are just hard to come by … backfilling Grisham with a 1B is a much easier (low cost) possibility. (Might need / want to extend Kim if going that route).

Low low probability of happening but on paper could result in a better offense.

I wonder how much it would cost to keep Cooper to help fill the 1B DH hole.

It probably wouldn't take too much. 2 years at 6-8m per year might be enough looking at some of the deals guys signed last year. That's kind of why I think Cronenworth is the guy they should look to move. They can probably match or exceed his production cheaper from a more traditional 1B type.

Quote from fenn68 on October 2, 2023, 6:28 am

Quote from Jeremy Hill on October 1, 2023, 8:40 pm

Quote from Notmyopic on October 1, 2023, 6:27 pm

Quote from fenn68 on October 1, 2023, 8:22 am

Quote from WindsorUK on October 1, 2023, 7:57 am

I'd also like for management to come out in the next few days and say that Jake Cronenworth is our 2B next year( he cannot be at 1B again!)

Makes sense but not going to happen unless they trade Kim (and I don’t want that) or move him to CF (don’t see that happening). Bogaerts in just not moving off SS.

I guess the other issue is they don’t have a prototypical 1B ready in house … and given the need to spend on pitching not likely they spend on a 1B AND a DH. Not the best look but think the offense overall can cover Cronenworth at 1B.

———————

Although would not think Kim to CF is going to happen … just a pinch of appeal trying to replicate the move of Tatis to RF. Kim is athletic enough / fast enough with the work ethic to make that a successful transition. Hate to lose his INF defense but Cronenworth was a plus defensive 2B. Kim offense is vastly superior to Grisham … upgrades in CF are just hard to come by … backfilling Grisham with a 1B is a much easier (low cost) possibility. (Might need / want to extend Kim if going that route).

Low low probability of happening but on paper could result in a better offense.

I wonder how much it would cost to keep Cooper to help fill the 1B DH hole.

It probably wouldn't take too much. 2 years at 6-8m per year might be enough looking at some of the deals guys signed last year. That's kind of why I think Cronenworth is the guy they should look to move. They can probably match or exceed his production cheaper from a more traditional 1B type.

Might be a little less as a 33 year old and generally not considered a full time player. I would guess more near $5-6MM for 1 year (with an option year).

In the past thought Cooper would have been a good add … still do … but not sure that is where  the Padres should drop $6MM given the need for pitching (a lot) and probably set a higher priority on re-signing Profar … probably for the same cost.

I am focused on building a pitching staff first … dealing with loss / potential loss of Snell, Wacha, Lugo, and Martinez … then maybe near the end of winter / start of ST add a low cost bat getting desperate of a job (at a low cost). A lot of money will be directed at pitching if the Padres plan to contend in 2024 and will gamble on the returning offense with minor tinkering will be enough.

Quote from Jeremy Hill on October 2, 2023, 10:26 am

Quote from fenn68 on October 2, 2023, 6:28 am

Quote from Jeremy Hill on October 1, 2023, 8:40 pm

Quote from Notmyopic on October 1, 2023, 6:27 pm

Quote from fenn68 on October 1, 2023, 8:22 am

Quote from WindsorUK on October 1, 2023, 7:57 am

I'd also like for management to come out in the next few days and say that Jake Cronenworth is our 2B next year( he cannot be at 1B again!)

Makes sense but not going to happen unless they trade Kim (and I don’t want that) or move him to CF (don’t see that happening). Bogaerts in just not moving off SS.

I guess the other issue is they don’t have a prototypical 1B ready in house … and given the need to spend on pitching not likely they spend on a 1B AND a DH. Not the best look but think the offense overall can cover Cronenworth at 1B.

———————

Although would not think Kim to CF is going to happen … just a pinch of appeal trying to replicate the move of Tatis to RF. Kim is athletic enough / fast enough with the work ethic to make that a successful transition. Hate to lose his INF defense but Cronenworth was a plus defensive 2B. Kim offense is vastly superior to Grisham … upgrades in CF are just hard to come by … backfilling Grisham with a 1B is a much easier (low cost) possibility. (Might need / want to extend Kim if going that route).

Low low probability of happening but on paper could result in a better offense.

I wonder how much it would cost to keep Cooper to help fill the 1B DH hole.

It probably wouldn't take too much. 2 years at 6-8m per year might be enough looking at some of the deals guys signed last year. That's kind of why I think Cronenworth is the guy they should look to move. They can probably match or exceed his production cheaper from a more traditional 1B type.

Might be a little less as a 33 year old and generally not considered a full time player. I would guess more near $5-6MM for 1 year (with an option year).

In the past thought Cooper would have been a good add … still do … but not sure that is where  the Padres should drop $6MM given the need for pitching (a lot) and probably set a higher priority on re-signing Profar … probably for the same cost.

I am focused on building a pitching staff first … dealing with loss / potential loss of Snell, Wacha, Lugo, and Martinez … then maybe near the end of winter / start of ST add a low cost bat getting desperate of a job (at a low cost). A lot of money will be directed at pitching if the Padres plan to contend in 2024 and will gamble on the returning offense with minor tinkering will be enough.

I think the weak 1B market gets him a second year. I don't think Bell will opt out which would put Cooper near the top of the class. It's basically platoon guys and bounce back candidates. Cooper's split were more extreme this year. He's been a pretty good hitter against all types of pitching when healthy for most of his career. Mancini got 2/14m, Carpenter got 2/12m with incentives, Belt got 9.3m Santana got 6.725m. Myers got 7.5 for more of a hybrid 1B/OF role. I expect Cooper will find a deal in the same range.

Profar I think we'll be cheaper. His performance with the Rockies might have put him in minor league deal territory. His performance with us might have helped his market some, but he also seems like he wants to be here. I think he'll be back on a modest deal. Maybe a low base with incentives.

I agree that pitching is the priority which is why I would only look at someone like Cooper if they moved Cronenworth. With the extension kicking in he's jumping up to a 7m salary and a 11.43m AAV. Even if he bounces back offensively that's a lot for what he brings at 1B. If Bogaerts won't move to 1B they could save a little in the short term and a lot in the long term if they can find a taker for Cronenworth and keep Cooper around.

If they don't trade Cronenworth, Soto or anyone else I think they invest heavily in pitching and maybe go after Lee as the one big position player target.

Quote from fenn68 on October 2, 2023, 10:59 am

I can't see any team trading for Cronenworth given his 2023 (maybe even 2022-21) with that contract (7 yrs / $80MM) for a guy who will be 30 next season ... and "only" a 2B. I does not help the Padres if they eat part of his contract ... and to move him the would have to throw in a pretty good prospect ... and that does not help the future. Think they are "stuck" with Cronenworth until he rebounds to a plus player OR the contact drops to about 3 years.

Cronenworth should be back at 2B but the Padres boxed themselves in with a long term contract to Bogaerts, Kim, and a Top 10 prospect in Merrill. None should be a 1B but that is 4 for two slots. Something has to be changed. Trade Kim or Merrill (both would have a market). Move one (or two) to the OF (CF or LF when they move Soto). Kim in his last season before FA may just play himself out to the mix in 2025 (too expensive).

They were fine with moving Tatis to the OF (and it worked) ... which of the 4 middle INF make the most sense to move to the OF? Consider the known INF defense vs potential OF defense ... sort of a net over / under based on all four together.

If they move Soto this winter ... and Merrill starts 2024 in the minors ... I could live with the stability of Bogaerts - Kim in the INF and drop Cronenworth in LF. If he agreed, also could live with Bogaerts in LF (maybe CF) with a middle INF of Kim - Cronenworth (and that sets up an easy step up for Merrill to SS when Kim leaves). Less Soto's $30MM they can add a decent 1B ... and still fund pitching.

 

 

Quote from MrPadre19 on October 2, 2023, 1:42 pm

Bogaerts or Cronenworth to LF makes the most sense...if we can't get X to 1B yet that is.

This log jam is the only reason I've mentioned a few times that,despite the fact we need minimum cost players,we could still trade Merrill.

If we get a minimum cost SP in return.

I still say the Marlins are a good option.

Despite injuries to their rotation they still have some good young options AND a need for a SS.

I saw mention the possibility of moving Arraez to SS....I can't see that turning out well for them.

Quote from fenn68 on October 2, 2023, 1:53 pm

One thing we can't really evaluate is now the Padres view the arrival timeframe (and impact) of Pauley, Merrill, Marsee, and Martorella. Their view (and level of risk taking) will impact the moves of current roster pieces or acquisitions.

Hypothetically, if they really see Pauley as a starter bat near term ... he actually could be that 1B/DH or maybe LF ... so maybe focus on a short term fill at low cost to make an easy transition.

Quote from fenn68 on October 2, 2023, 2:07 pm

Hearing opposing rumors from "sources" on Soto ... one the Padres are planning on trading him to clear the $30MM as the one major move to drop $50MM in payroll ... one the Padres are working on negotiating and extension.

Good sign that the Padres are keeping their game plan close to their vest.

The one rumor that seems to sit with everyone ... the Padres will reduce the payroll for 2024 ... maybe some fuzziness around the absolute end number but down not up. Can't see the Padres making the needed additions to the SP while reducing payroll and retaining Soto at $30MM. So, could conclude keeping Soto will lead to a another failed season even if he hits at a MVP level.

Quote from BoosterSD on October 2, 2023, 2:15 pm

Quote from MrPadre19 on October 2, 2023, 1:42 pm

I still say the Marlins are a good option.

Despite injuries to their rotation they still have some good young options AND a need for a SS.

I saw mention the possibility of moving Arraez to SS....I can't see that turning out well for them.

I wonder what kind of trade could be worked between MIA and SD for Cronenworth. He did come up as a SS, and would be a better option defensively and offensively over Berti, and Wendle who is a FA.

We could even look to at including Grisham, allowing Chisholm to move back to 2B, Arraez to move to 1B or DH, allowing MIA to improve defensively at SS, 2B, and CF, and save SD some money.

Even if the return was not one of their best SP prospects, that would give SD $12M± in payroll savings that could go towards a FA SP.

Quote from Jeremy Hill on October 2, 2023, 2:45 pm

I don't think Cronenworth's contract is as bad as it's made out to be. Even just a slight bounce back to his 2022 numbers coupled with his glove at 2B probably makes him only slightly overpaid on a yearly basis. I also think his value could be helped by the weak market. There's not much out there beyond Whit Merrifield. They probably would have to attach a prospect or do something to sweeten the deal. I don't think it would be as drastic as might be expected. I also think it would be worth it to be able to redirect some money this year and free up a lot of money moving forward. I like Jake, but with Bogaerts and Kim around he's a square peg trying to fit into a round hole. They can't move Bogaerts and Kim is probably the most popular player on the team between the fan base and clubhouse. He also gives them a foothold in the Korean market. I would be very surprised if they moved him. Jake just makes the most sense to me.

Also I agree with MrP. It might not be Merrill, but if they keep everyone around they're probably trading position player prospects for pitching. Outside of one OF spot there's just not much room for them to break into the lineup as things stand. Merrill, Pauley, Martorella, Castanon and others could all be on the block. Merrill is athletic enough to handle a move to the OF. The rest not so much. That could make them most valuable as trade pieces.