Quote from Randy Manese on January 5, 2024, 4:01 pm

If I'm a Giants fan, I'm not sure I'm buying what they are selling.  They way overpaid for a complimentary-type OF who is not going to be the impact bat they are claiming he is.  Don't get me wrong, I would have loved to have him as a table setter at the top of the line-up but 18+M for a KBO player who is not a base stealer and has shown limited power, seems a lot to expect to have him elevate these skills in the majors.

Now they are getting a 32 year old pitcher who just had TJ surgery last May and could possibly be back on the mound in the latter part of the 2024 season.  While they did dump two costly and ineffective players to Seattle but they sent along cash to balance out the CBT differences.  DeSciafani is in his walk year this year and Haniger has just 15M on his contract for 2025 while Ray is owed a total of 50M for 25 and 26.  Will Ray even pitch in 2024?  Does this create even more holes in the SF roster?  Will Ray regain his former skills at 33+ for 2025 and 2026?

While I like the Braves acquisition of Sale, I thought it was premature to give him an extension.  However, even that seems more logical that taking on a pitcher coming back from recent TJ surgery and hoping to get at least 2 Cy Young type of years from him at 50M in the future.

As a Padres fan, I'm glad we passed on the overpay for Lee and much rather have paid for Matsui and Go than watching Ray recover on the sidelines at 23M (plus whatever they sent Seattle).

 

Quote from fenn68 on January 5, 2024, 4:13 pm

Quote from Jeremy Hill on January 5, 2024, 1:59 pm

Quote from MrPadre19 on January 5, 2024, 1:45 pm

Mariners trade Robbie Ray to the Giants.

Not a big deal "unless" they are clearing a spot,and some salary,to go after hometown bot Blake Snell.

 

Also,looks like they will be getting Luke Raley from the Rays for a 26 year old middle infielder named Jose Caballero.

Caballero is a middling middle infielder......am I wrong in thinking Raley would be a perfect fit for us?

This seems about equivalent to us sending Castanon or Verdugo for Raley.

I don't get it?

Why wouldn't we make this deal?

 

 

 

Caballero is a pretty strong and versatile defender. He also got on base at a .395 clip against lefties and stole 26 bags. He fits the Rays mix and match matchup based style pretty well. He's probably part of the plan to replace Wander Franco.

Yeh, that is the thing … he had a 2.2 WAR in the ML and is needed now by TB to support the INF. SEA wanted some better OF hitting, so Raley a fit and he had about a 2.5 ML WAR.

Not thinking either are great prospects since we’re both “older” with only a season of ML service time. Actually a trade to address both teams current needs with somewhat similar talents.

Quote from MrPadre19 on January 5, 2024, 6:34 pm

From the Mariners:

”We’re thrilled to add Luke Raley to the middle of our lineup as a left-handed bat with positional versatility,” Mariners general manager Justin Hollander said in that club’s press release. “Offensively, Luke brings power paired with game-changing baserunning and instincts. He’s also a solid defender across multiple positions, adding further flexibility to our lineup on a nightly basis.”

 

Yep….doesn't sound anything like what the Padres need.

Caballero hit .221 with 4 HR….you're telling me we couldn’t offer that?

This also means the Rays are not trading Arozarena….and AJ obviously has a different plan for the OF.But man,Raley sure seemed to me the exact type guy we need.LH,versatile outfielder with power and cheap.League minimum for two more years before Arb.

 

 

 

 

 

Quote from fenn68 on January 6, 2024, 5:43 am

To be clear … think the extension for Cronenworth last winter was premature given he had a couple years of control under arbitration and was already 28 … so 7 years was questionable.

However, can see some rationale … in 2021 AS A 2B he was ranked #6 (WAR) / #7 (wRC+) and in 2022 #5 (WAR) and #7 (wRC+). 4.2 WAR in each year could be considered a bargain for a $12MM AAV in the new contract (and apparently seeing the FA signings this winter a real bargain). As with all long term deals a risk of not meeting expectations as we saw with all such players in 2023.

So can they get Cronenworth back to near his past performance … maybe.

First some reason for hope … his OPS last July was up to .753 and in August .752 … September injured. Both above league average.

Even in an overall poor season … he did deliver a 100 wRC+ at PETCO (difficult place to hit) but failed AWAY with a low 84.

Now this is a leap in cause and effect for 2023 but based on results might they be best served to get the max value out of Cronenworth to return him to 2B and bat his 6th in the line-up rather than force fit him at 1B? Consider he hit in 2023 .260 (.743 OPS) at #6. As a 2B (123 PA) he hit .288 with a 126 wRC+ (would have make him the 4th best as a 2B) vs as a 1B (396 AB) .212 average / 82 wRC+.

Understand that some don’t think position shifts have any effect of offensive performance … I am not in that camp since change (almost any) can have companion ripple effects and a good chance the move from 2B success to 1B did alter Cronenworth. All players are different … so changes impact each player differently.

So maybe to rebuild some value (for the Padres or for a future trade) put Cronenworth back at 2B / batting #6 and increase the chance he returns to being a top #5-6 2B in MLB … and justify a $12MM future salary.

Not sure how to shuffle the others in the INF and what to do to cover 1B but Cronenworth to 2B does open some other strategies.

Quote from 84padres on January 6, 2024, 5:58 am

Quote from MrPadre19 on January 5, 2024, 1:45 pm

Mariners trade Robbie Ray to the Giants.

Not a big deal "unless" they are clearing a spot,and some salary,to go after hometown bot Blake Snell.

 

Also,looks like they will be getting Luke Raley from the Rays for a 26 year old middle infielder named Jose Caballero.

Caballero is a middling middle infielder......am I wrong in thinking Raley would be a perfect fit for us?

This seems about equivalent to us sending Castanon or Verdugo for Raley.

I don't get it?

Why wouldn't we make this deal?

 

 

 

I was wondering the same thing about Raley .  Maybe Tampa Bay is a little wary of trading with AJ seeing how he has gotten the best of his deals with them lately .

As a side note , TB has signed old friend Burch Smith to a minor league deal . I remember having high hopes for him way back in 2013. Boy times have changed when we look at the quality of our team now vs then .

Quote from Randy Manese on January 6, 2024, 6:35 am

Smith was one of the guys we sent to Tampa Bay to acquire Wil Myers.   Of course, everyone now calls it the Trea Turner trade, since he was part of that deal that had him going to Washington, but we did get a few productive years from Myers and had it not been for his injuries, might have gotten a steal in RP Jose Castillo.  Rest of the guys in the trade, including Smith, didn't make much of an impact in the MLB, although some are still playing.  Smith has been bouncing around Asia the last 2 years, first in Japan and last year in Korea with not so good results.

Another more recent friend, Austin Nola, signed a minor league deal with Milwaukee with an invitation to spring training.  Wish him the best!

Quote from fenn68 on January 6, 2024, 7:01 am

Quote from 84padres on January 6, 2024, 5:58 am

Quote from MrPadre19 on January 5, 2024, 1:45 pm

Mariners trade Robbie Ray to the Giants.

Not a big deal "unless" they are clearing a spot,and some salary,to go after hometown bot Blake Snell.

 

Also,looks like they will be getting Luke Raley from the Rays for a 26 year old middle infielder named Jose Caballero.

Caballero is a middling middle infielder......am I wrong in thinking Raley would be a perfect fit for us?

This seems about equivalent to us sending Castanon or Verdugo for Raley.

I don't get it?

Why wouldn't we make this deal?

 

 

 

I was wondering the same thing about Raley .  Maybe Tampa Bay is a little wary of trading with AJ seeing how he has gotten the best of his deals with them lately .

As a side note , TB has signed old friend Burch Smith to a minor league deal . I remember having high hopes for him way back in 2013. Boy times have changed when we look at the quality of our team now vs then .

Think the TB motivation was straight forward ... with the Franco situation they wanted (needed) a ML INF who has played SS and being budget minded ... at league minimum. Plus don't under estimate Caballero who in his rookie season pushed out a 2.2 WAR. Raley had a 2.6 WAR in his first full season at age 29 (so maybe some suspect on that going forward) plus he is a LF/1B ... not a need in TB.

I can't see what the Padres could provide to meet the TB need ... except Merrill.

Quote from MrPadre19 on January 6, 2024, 8:12 am

It's definitely hard to question TB in regards to who the acquire.

Caballero's minor league numbers are decent...but not great.But what you can't see on MiLB.com is their defense.

Maybe Caballero is a great defender?

On a side note concerning TB's reluctance to trade with AJ apparently Stl hasn't learned their lesson trading outfielders to TB.

This guy Palacios is probably going to go on and become an All star in TB based on past history of trades with Stl outfielders.

🙂

 

Quote from MrPadre19 on January 6, 2024, 8:14 am

Quote from fenn68 on January 6, 2024, 7:01 am

Quote from 84padres on January 6, 2024, 5:58 am

Quote from MrPadre19 on January 5, 2024, 1:45 pm

Mariners trade Robbie Ray to the Giants.

Not a big deal "unless" they are clearing a spot,and some salary,to go after hometown bot Blake Snell.

 

Also,looks like they will be getting Luke Raley from the Rays for a 26 year old middle infielder named Jose Caballero.

Caballero is a middling middle infielder......am I wrong in thinking Raley would be a perfect fit for us?

This seems about equivalent to us sending Castanon or Verdugo for Raley.

I don't get it?

Why wouldn't we make this deal?

 

 

 

I was wondering the same thing about Raley .  Maybe Tampa Bay is a little wary of trading with AJ seeing how he has gotten the best of his deals with them lately .

As a side note , TB has signed old friend Burch Smith to a minor league deal . I remember having high hopes for him way back in 2013. Boy times have changed when we look at the quality of our team now vs then .

Think the TB motivation was straight forward ... with the Franco situation they wanted (needed) a ML INF who has played SS and being budget minded ... at league minimum. Plus don't under estimate Caballero who in his rookie season pushed out a 2.2 WAR. Raley had a 2.6 WAR in his first full season at age 29 (so maybe some suspect on that going forward) plus he is a LF/1B ... not a need in TB.

I can't see what the Padres could provide to meet the TB need ... except Merrill.

I guess that's true.TB's need for a shortstop is no secret...I'm sure AJ had deals on the table that in some way included Kim or Merrill but those would have been for way more than just Raley.

TB chose the prospect for prospect deal just due to position need.

I guess I'm just like everyone else....ready for some additions to the outfield!

Something to talk about and get excited about!