Quote from MrPadre19 on May 25, 2020, 1:33 pm

Baseball without fans sucks and certainly isn’t ideal.

But it is definitely better than no baseball.

Both for the good of MLB and for the fans.

Baseball would be the only sport to lose a full season if they don’t play.

We don’t need to fall any farther behind the NFL as America’s past time.

 

Quote from fenn68 on May 25, 2020, 3:45 pm

Baseball (all professional sports) have millions of fans who either cannot or chose not (for whatever reason) actually attend games ...they are nonetheless fans who crave seeing their sports back and following them on TV, radio, print, et. al.

Games with fans in the stands ... better yes ... but actually playing sports for the masses is way more needed.

As I noted before, have now watched two weekends of Bundesliga ... without fans ... and fans in major European soccer provide a way more energetic atmosphere than MLB for the entire match. Lack of fans had no impact on the quality of the match or my enjoyment on TV.

My only real concern is that US networks will not know how to adapt in their production structure to focus on the field / game (as the Bundesliga does) and stay away from the emphasis the empty stands, the "rules" of engagement, et al. ... and thereby take the positive of playing baseball into a depressing saga.

However, the only real issue is getting games played in 2020 for the sanity of millions of fans.

Quote from fenn68 on May 30, 2020, 11:41 am

WHEN the season resumes consensus is that there will be:

1. 2-3 week ST 2.0
2. 30 man active roster / 20 man "taxi squad"

Has anyone heard any limitations on the ST players ... teams should have more than 50, I would think, for injuries and just sub-standard ST performance ... then cut down to the final 50 for the start of the season.

Maybe each team is different ... but there still could be a visa issue for Latin players who returned home and need a new visa to return ... often not an easy process at best so even if the process just lags ... need to consider options ... maybe one stream of though for key ML players and a different approach to candidates for the "taxi squad".

=====

With the 50 player limit during the season ... and no minor league season .... we should expect a lot of non-roster veterans being released as the season starts (actually some 40 man roster veterans too ... especially if they would be FA after the season and are "on the margin").

Would save a bit of money and might give some veterans a better shot of hooking on to another ML club and play in 2020.

I could see the Padres scanning the release / waiver wires to maybe pick up an upgrade for the bench or just the "taxi squad". Would not expect trades until into the season after every team figures out how their players (and the target players) are performing after a 3 month layoff ... and where they stand in the playoff hunt.

Quote from WindsorUK on June 1, 2020, 8:57 am

Any dates thrown out yet, as to when they want to get back to playing baseball? Or are the millionaire's and billionaire's squabbling over hundereds of thousands?

And have they actually decided how the teams will be formed? I see the numbers above but are those speculative?

And minor league is not happening AT ALL?

Hope they get this sorted out before summer is over........

Quote from fenn68 on June 1, 2020, 10:46 am

Quote from WindsorUK on June 1, 2020, 8:57 am

Any dates thrown out yet, as to when they want to get back to playing baseball? Or are the millionaire's and billionaire's squabbling over hundereds of thousands?

And have they actually decided how the teams will be formed? I see the numbers above but are those speculative?

And minor league is not happening AT ALL?

Hope they get this sorted out before summer is over........

More like quibbling about MILLIONS of dollars ... and a lot of MILLIONS ... not even close on money split.

As for dates think the Union just proposed a 114 game schedule that goes from June 30 to the end of October. Owners had proposed an 82 game schedule starting on July 4 and ending in September. Owners really don't want (not really explained in detail) to go into October with the regular season even if it means more games and, in theory, more revenue from TV.

Since every option in play impacts money in some way ... can't settle on schedule, roster formation, et al unless the core compensation debate is settled. Hard to tell if the public stances both sides take mirror the behind the scenes negotiations. So it is possible that out of nowhere (seemingly) this gets done ... maybe in another 10 or so days.

Players did suggest deferring a major piece of the salary (for games played) into 2021 and 2022 to deal with the cash flow crunch. Owners want them to take further cuts.

Minor Leagues ... no chance of returning in 2020. Minor league teams cannot afford to run without fans and ML owners can't really spend money on minor league operations while at the same time laying off staff and demanding MLB players to take a cut. I have my doubts about even the winter fall leagues and the winter instructional ... they too cost money if nothing else to open the ST facilities, play / house the players, and provide the health guarantees and considering the Red Sox just did pay cuts for all their staff that will last to the end of the year ... hard to justify.

Other than the negotiations for additional cuts for the ML players, the owners have not only reduced the draft to 5 rounds to save some money but most of the bonus money is being deferred to 2021 and 2022 to help cash flow and the non-drafted FA bonus ceiling is a paltry $20,000 or so. Talk of moving back the July 2 international signing period to next January. Layer on all the operations furloughs and salary cuts that may last all year .... running any minor league activity before restoring the jobs / pay for the operations staff is not likely.

Quote from fenn68 on June 1, 2020, 3:12 pm

Update:

MLB plans to propose a smaller schedule – perhaps one with as few as 50 to 60 games – per Jeff Passan of ESPN (Twitter links via Passan and Robert Murray), but the league would give players a full portion of their prorated salaries.

I guess the owners really only want to get to the expanded playoffs ... the season not so much? Queue up the asterisks to go with the World Series Champ ... batting titles ... etc. 60 games can yield some unusual results.

Quote from MrPadre19 on June 2, 2020, 4:57 am

If this happens I sure hope no one hits .400......or even over .390

Quote from MrPadre19 on June 2, 2020, 7:30 am

They need to figure this out soon or there will be no season!

 

Quote from Brian Connelly on June 2, 2020, 9:31 am

Quote from fenn68 on June 1, 2020, 3:12 pm

Update:

MLB plans to propose a smaller schedule – perhaps one with as few as 50 to 60 games – per Jeff Passan of ESPN (Twitter links via Passan and Robert Murray), but the league would give players a full portion of their prorated salaries.

I guess the owners really only want to get to the expanded playoffs ... the season not so much? Queue up the asterisks to go with the World Series Champ ... batting titles ... etc. 60 games can yield some unusual results.

This is an interesting counter.... haven't done the math, but guessing the Total $ amount of 50 games with all players paid fully per game ... but for only about 30% of a normal season, is pretty close to the $ outlay proposed over 82 games with the sliding "tax bracket" decreases.   Big difference is owners don't "lose $" for the 30+ games they don't play, and the big winners are 180 degrees different now:  instead of the minimum salary guys coming closest to whole, it's clearly the superstars who would:  Manny Machado would make about 9 MM for playing only 50 games.  An MLB minimum guy would get <175K.  If nothing else, it does represent a floor that MLB/Manfred believe they have the right to impose.  With this on the table, it's hard to believe we get no season; this is the bare minimum.  But the pressure is now on the players to act very quickly if they truly want to add more games.

The Players "we deserve to be paid fully (prorated) b/c of the risk we're taking" was stupid to begin with at their extremely high compensation rates in a country where 10's of millions of their fans are laid off but still willing to risk exposure for $0 to stand up for what they believe in (ranging from protests nationally to large pool parties at Lake of Ozark).   Just doesn't fly with average fans that the ultra controlled, tons of testing, etc environment MLB would come back to is "risky" for elite athletes in their 20's & 30's.  Companies are laying people off & cutting salaries for those who remain.  Players have a face-saving floor; but owners are being pretty clear that it's a zero sum game from there; the more games played, the MORE they lose... if nothing changes.

To me, the way forward is pretty obvious:  1)  Push owners to full prorated salaries for all from 50 up to 60 games.   2)  Use a simplified version of the sliding scale "brackets" for additional games played.  Cap this # of games at 50% of  games payed "full pay.  So if full pay 60 games, then reduced pay for last 30 = 90 games total.  This aligns player goal of maxing games played (& total player salaries)  with owners desire not to lose more $ per game played; would incentivize both sides to play as many games as possible.

Maybe:  Pre-Arb <600K get 100%, up to 1 MM get 80%, 1-2 MM 60%, 2-5 MM 40%, 5-10 MM 20%, >10 MM 10%.   Something like that.  So for each game after 60 Machado would get 100% salary up to 600K, 80% to 1 MM, 60% to 2 MM, etc.  I just did the math:  Manny would get "only" $35,308/game on this scale vs. "normal season pay" of $185,185/game.   Hosmer & Myers would get $29,135 vs $123,456/game "normally"  Manny would still be the highest paid player/game for the Padres, but he would also be giving up the most $$ per game.

This would give the owners the possibility of breaking even or maybe even making money per game after 50-60.  Could have an "attendance clawback clause" so if fans can go to games at any point in season, there's some giveback to players (a % of gate to a pool to make up the difference first for 600K-1M salaries, then 1-2MM, etc) so owners aren't suddenly coming out way "ahead".   Machado's salary is 53 minimum salary guys.  Hosmer & Myers are each 35 minimum salary guys.  Cutting a % from the minimum pre-arb guys does nothing; the most highly compensated guys are going to have to give up the most in absolute $ in some way to get a season of at least half normal length.