Quote from MrPadre19 on June 19, 2023, 12:31 pm

I have no problem with Tatis leading off IF we could score some dang runs once runners get on.

But we can't.

How long do we keep doing what isn't working with the World Series on the line?

It's not like he would have to stay in the 3 hole forever.

It's really the #3-#5 hitters that are not doing their jobs.Manny has been hitting as of late....but the top 2 guys are getting on base (doing their jobs)...it's everyone else that has issues once runners get on....and some even with bases empty.

I've said all along this can't continue....but it has.

Surely it will stop soon right?

Right?

Edit:and stop calling me Shirley!

 

Quote from MrPadre19 on June 19, 2023, 12:33 pm

Quote from BoosterSD on June 19, 2023, 12:18 pm

Quote from MrPadre19 on June 19, 2023, 11:37 am

It's not rocket surgery and forever it was:

1-best OBP guy (Soto)

2-best contact/bunting guy (Xander?)

3-best over all hitter (Tatis)

4-next best hitter/run producer (Manny)

5-next best hitter/run producer (Cronenworth)

So here is the problem with your evaluations of Padres hitters. IF Melvin would leave Soto alone and keep him in the 4th batting position (historical numbers back this up) Soto IS the best OBP guy, best contact guy, the best hitter on the team, and the best run producer.

I think this season is showing that since Tatis is embracing the move to RF, he is becoming both the best RFer and lead off hitter in baseball. Tatis could be the best lead off hitter in baseball since Rickey Henderson. And no one ever considered moving him out of the lead off spot.

The problem is SD has no one that succeeds in the 2 spot, and our DH options suck. We need a guy like Loretta was in SD, a gapper guy who made contact and moved runners over, and a real DH.

So really we should be going Tatis, Player X not on the team at this time, Machado, Soto, Bogaerts, DH not on the team at this time, Crone, Kim, C of the day, and Grisham.

Arraez should have been that 2 hole hitter, but we didnt beat out MIA for his services. Then we would only need a DH. And who knows where we find a DH this season.

I get that one guy can be the better at more than one thing...unfortunately he still can only man one spot in the order.

 

Quote from fenn68 on June 19, 2023, 1:25 pm

Has to be a lot of back and forth in the Padres’ front office on the best line-up with a season long perspective … basically if they believe underperforming Soto, Machado, Bogaerts, and Cronenworth will rebound … and love Tatis leading off … maybe (as they appear to have done) set a line-up and hold for awhile (even though not my favorite setup). Might argue that if that group does not rebound … the line-up really does not matter that much.

Soto (you know how I feel about him) has to be the center of the debate … they traded for “the best hitter since Ted Williams” based on his ML production in WASH. That is the player they need … not getting that … so what to do? Could argue to get Soto going as a hitter … maybe should put him #4 for situations were taking a walk is not incentivized but stats seem to not support that.

Soto with none on / no outs (65 AB) : 246/372/523 (895) but with RISP (52 AB) 231/408/308 (716) … so that would imply more impact from Soto leading off. Sort of goes with my theme that Soto is worse in high leverage situations. He basically walks more with men on base … maybe just pitchers being extra careful to avoid his hitting but stats are stats. Basically a better hitter with no one on base giving up some OBP for more SLG … I think that is good. A case for your argument for Soto leading off … just not for your reasoning of OBP.

Now that comes with a cost of moving the game changing baserunner in Tatis out of the lead off slot. Tatis with none on / no outs (66 AB) 338/438/591 (1129) but with RISP (44 AB) 273/365/409 (774). Tatis is better than Soto no matter where you play him but may get a little less production out of him down in the line-up while losing base running impact at the top of the line-up (and probably curtailing it lower in the line-up with men on base).

Not an easy call when everyone other that Tatis is underperforming. I guess I would leave Tatis leading-off (way too much production / impact to risk) but have to get Soto out of #2.

Tatis - Bogaerts - Soto (L) - Machado - Cronenworth (L) would make a little more sense to me (maybe changes Soto’s motivation to actually swing the bat and HIT while getting more hittable pitches with runners on ahead and Machado behind … if Machado gets hot). Plus if Tatis / Bogaerts make outs … Soto seems at his best now no one on base with a good SLG. Soto HITTING is got to be what the Padres have to work towards … somehow.

Quote from fenn68 on June 19, 2023, 1:38 pm

I don’t know cause and effect but those “traditional” lead-off hitters seem to be few and far between … either MLB analytics don’t support developing them (therefore they don’t exist) or they did not develop and MLB had to go a different direction. Bottom line don’t really see any clear cut quality lead-off type that could be available next season. Maybe they can find another team’s prospect that could surprise.

Maybe a better chance of finding a decent #2 hitter … and leave Tatis at #1. At the same time … strengthen the line-up 5-9 taking the focus (pressure) off 1-4 being the entire offense.

Quote from Stergios on June 19, 2023, 2:45 pm

X should be our #2 hitter, but apparently he has made it clear that he doesn’t want to bat there, and BoMel seems reticent to press the issue.

Quote from fenn68 on June 19, 2023, 3:38 pm

Quote from Stergios on June 19, 2023, 2:45 pm

X should be our #2 hitter, but apparently he has made it clear that he doesn’t want to bat there, and BoMel seems reticent to press the issue.

Don't think anyone good wants to hit 2nd ... maybe how the players view the role of a #2 hitter and they just do not see that role fitting their objectives as a ballplayer / hitter. Square pegs in round hole?

All well and good to say they should do what is good for the team and should be able to adapt ... but guessing they are not built that way mentally and "forcing" them to a spot they do not like might have an adverse result. Might be an issue with Soto ... Bogaerts has never been a #2 and does not want to be ... Machado does not to be 2nd ... list just goes on.

Need to find (trade deadline or winter) a player who has been built to be a #2 hitter and clearly relishes the role ... not easy but maybe easier than force fitting.

Quote from 3fingersplit on June 19, 2023, 4:05 pm

I have to laugh because all of these guys all say the same thing " I'm here to help this team win a World Series" yet they don't want to do what might help the team win a World Series. It sure seems like Melvin has his hands tied with the batting order if you catch my drift.

Quote from WindsorUK on June 21, 2023, 3:38 pm

https://www.mlb.com/news/fernando-tatis-jr-throws-out-tying-run-padres-beat-rays

Can someone please tell me who Bruhan is?

Orsillo twice calls the runner who gets gunned down " Bruhan", when we can clearly see it's Manny Margot????

Quote from fenn68 on June 21, 2023, 4:00 pm

Quote from WindsorUK on June 21, 2023, 3:38 pm

https://www.mlb.com/news/fernando-tatis-jr-throws-out-tying-run-padres-beat-rays

Can someone please tell me who Bruhan is?

Orsillo twice calls the runner who gets gunned down " Bruhan", when we can clearly see it's Manny Margot????

Brujan was pinch running for H. Ramirez and on 1st base for that play … Orsillo just got confused with Brujan having just been announced as the pinch runner.