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"Double Hook" DH & other Rule change experiments in Minors
#1 · April 15, 2021, 8:17 am
The “double-hook” designated hitter rule will be in place for the entirety of the 2021 Atlantic League season. Under the new rule, a team will lose its designated hitter once the starting pitcher is pulled from the game. From that point forth, the team will need to either deploy a pinch-hitter or allow a relief pitcher to bat in what was the designated hitter’s place.
The goal of the rule, per the league, is to “incentivize teams to leave their starting pitchers in longer, increase the value of starters who can work deeper into games and increase the strategic element in the late innings of a game.”
I am SOOO psyched they are trying this! It's screamingly obvious to me this is the way to go league-wide with DH. You get the AL game with SP in, then NL game when out. It's best of both worlds. I've felt for a long time that DH only types are fundamentally overpaid. If you're an elite bat who is SO bad defensively at 1B or LF that you can't go on the field, I'm sorry: you don't deserve 25 MM/yr. Think we all "mythologize" the elite DH of each decade thinking that's "what a DH is"... not true for the 14 other teams that don't have "that guy". Also, when DH was first introduced, the game was totally different. SP's were routinely going way more IP (less velo), so it "felt" right that the DH was just hitting FOR the SP.... no one in the 1970's was anticipating the Rays etc using "Openers" who would be out of the game before the 1st DH AB!
Tying DH to SP introduces an entirely new strategic aspect; so many ways to go at it depending on who the SP is. If Rays etc want to use an "Opener", go ahead. But they'll burn that guy & be PH/double switching all game. Shouldn't have the luxury of never having to PH in a game where the intent from get go is to use 7 P's!
There are debatable "tweaks": like guaranteeing the DH at least 1 PA? MAYBE having another bench position player (27 man?) since near guarantee 1 of typically only 4 on bench is coming out of game, and 1 of remaining 3 is backup C. If not, likely need to keep option down time to 10 or maybe even only 7 days to "roll" last man on roster between Bench/RP. But can best figure those out by trying it out & seeing what works, what doesn't.
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LynchMob
#2 · April 15, 2021, 4:14 pm
I have to admit I don’t see anything good about this idea.
1. Don’t the managers already want their pitchers to go as deep (effectively) as possible and if they are not ... is it because they cannot effectively. Also, short starts may be the strategic decision (eg “starters”) to maximize the effectiveness of the staff ... so MLB want to take away that element of strategy?
2. How about pitcher’s health .... is this rule designed to keep the starter in even if struggling / extra wear on the arm ... more TJ? Not a good objective / outcome.
3. How about giving an unfair advantage to the team that goes up early .... they can keep their DH (and potentially add on) ... while the team that is behind can leave the starter in to continue to get pounded or pull him and lose the DH (likely a better hitter) reducing the odds of quality bat to mount a rally. Now with a reduce bench of inferior hitters to PH ... comebacks less likely ... where is the excitement in that?
4. Fans like to see players like Cruz and JD Martinez hit not field ... plus the DH is now used a lot as a rotational position to give stars a day off the field but their bat in the game (again fans are paying to see the stars in the game). No one is paying to see Tingler when 3 runs down in the 8th make a strategic decision to PH Mateo for the RP who has to hit because they lost Tatis who was DH that day. If you push your stars to play in the field every day ... increase injury and / or lower production.
5. Most fans (especially the kids) want to see their favorites as much as possible ... seems as this idea does just the opposite ... big no from my perspective
#3 · April 16, 2021, 11:13 am
Wow! Fenn, I'm really surprised you're THAT degree of negative on it.
- I HATE "Openers" & "Bullpen days". I understand the necessity sometimes, but fundamentally they feel like moving the game in the wrong direction; 9 guys throwing 95+ for 1 IP each doesn't "=" one good SP. SP's # of IP are dropping, but TJ is rising. It's due more to the overall velo increase in FB & breaking pitches than sheer workload.
- Again, rule implemented in 1970's when SP's were routinely going much longer in games; so DH really was taking THE STARTING P's spot in the lineup; not 5 PA in the 3 hole while team uses a 1 inning opener. "Double hook" just really goes back to the original intent of the rule. It would sometimes at clear inflection points in the game put pressure on the SP to get through their "last inning" if the DH happened to be 1 of the next 3 hitters for his team. But this same situation exists in NL now; in that situation, if the SP can't get through the inning, the Manager is likely to do a double switch if he wants the RP to go back out for a 2nd inning.
- ?? How is this "unfair"? It's like saying it's "unfair" that a team paid the $ to a better SP. Every team playing by the same rules, so "have better SP" (should favor a certain team I know 🙂 ANY DH format is better than watching Yu Darvish hit.
- Have one more hitter playing. So not watching Yu Darvish "hit". BUT I think you're correct that a needed DH rule change with "double hook" would be to allow the DH to switch to a Field position: A) when SP removed, or B) if an Injury to a position player happens. Seems like all players, Mangagers, & fans would favor that. I've never really understood the rationale to have ONLY the DH be the 1 guy who can't change positions in-game.
- As above
DH is obviously coming to NL, but it's fair to say 40+ years post implementation in AL, it's an ideal time to explore ways of making it even better & adding more strategy to particularly the AL game.
#4 · April 16, 2021, 2:19 pm
It would seem it would be a good idea to find relief pitchers who can hit.
Starter doesn’t need to be able too.....but everyone else will.
A guy like Lorenzen in Cin who was moved from the Pen into the rotation would be an ideal candidate to move back.
#5 · April 16, 2021, 2:20 pm
I'm on board with your starters pitching more than an inning, or 4. You need AT LEAST 5, if not 6 from your best pitchers. Not really been keen on "the specialist "( okay, I did get a kick out Charlie Finley using Herb Washington( a track athlete) as a " designated runner).
Interested to see how this works.
#6 · April 16, 2021, 6:16 pm
Quote from MrPadre19 on April 16, 2021, 2:19 pmIt would seem it would be a good idea to find relief pitchers who can hit.
Starter doesn’t need to be able too.....but everyone else will.
A guy like Lorenzen in Cin who was moved from the Pen into the rotation would be an ideal candidate to move back.
Very perceptive. There will be maybe 1-2 years where the decent hitting NL SP's will get a few AB's in this system, but as years go by with no batting practice, your long man in pen especially should be able to take an AB.
I hope they experiment with the rule. For example, it might be most "fair" to guarantee the DH 1-2 AB or getting to the 5th inning; whichever comes first; but can stay in longer if SP does... something like that. Owners probably love the idea of not paying pure DH well beyond 8 figures/year, more versatile players like Profar & Jake benefit. But owners will not love the inevitable idea of adding ANOTHER player to the active roster/bench.
That being said, it WAS only a few years ago when we actually had 7 man bullpens without guys in 10th inning on 2B. At some point you have to get to where you don't "need" 18 P on your roster. So my point is, teams could swing between an "extra" position player and an "extra" bullpen arm using optionable guys.